A Conversation for Feminism

Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 1

Researcher 29498

Tell my wife about that ...
Am fed-up with feminists. They wants rights to wear pants but don't want to repair the car, change the light bulb, wire a plug. Expect us to close the toilet lid but will leave their tights drying on the radiator.......
Thay are allowed to wear anything and beeing said to be elegant whereas when we go out in our dresses we are called perverted !


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 2

Archer

you may well wear your dresses, but I only get called perverted when I`m wearing suspenders and high heels


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 3

Xanthus

The toilet seat thing has always struck me as being a bit odd and the referral seems to be in more cases than not to the seat rather than the lid. It's the only case I know where the expectation is to return an object from a place where it is to be found when not in use to a place where it is to be found when it is in use after not using it! It's like saying "Remember to take the lawnmower out of the shed after not cutting the grass" or "Remember to take the vacuum cleaner out of the cupboard after not vacuuming the carpet".


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 4

Heidi

I believe anything to do with machinery should be mans work. and a cooker is a machine!! as is the hoover


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 5

Smaug

The main reason for the toilet seat thing in my opinion is to prevent the cat from drinking there!


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 6

Researcher 35838

Pardon me, but if anyone really thinks that feminism is a demand for a double standard (all the privileges and none of the responsibilities), then may I invite you to decrease your dosage of hallucinogenic drugs?


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 7

MisterBealy

Ooh political!
I agree that feminism SHOULD be about equality, but I've given up in disgust because it seems, in practice, to be about the promotion only of womens rights by a bunch of sour hypocrites who haven't been hurt nearly as much as they think. If this isn't you then please make your voice heard.


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 8

Jen,

Maybe feminism is a bad word to use, because for most people it conjures up images of, to use MisterBealey's phrase, sour hypocrites. But surely, at the end of the 20th century, no-one thinks equality is all about toilet seats! It's about having the same rights to do the same things (and yes, that does mean that men should be able to wear dresses if they want, but seeing as a lot of men find this threatening, that is more then just an issue of feminism, it's about changing people's pre-conceptions). So, without meaning to get too political, I think we should stop thinking in terms of feminism, but focus on creating equality for both sexes.


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 9

MisterBealy

Well put, Jen. And can I add that we should be striving for equality for all races and everything else that is blighted by discrimination. I would be interested to hear where you think the battleground [forgive the military metaphor] is.

By way of explanation: I dipped a toe into the feminism debate as a natural extension from my "interest" in race issues. But all I could see was women screaming "men this" and "men that" and "men stereotype" and "women are better than men because ..." and "women [not everyone] should have this and that". I even bought into it for a while, until I realised that it was all just as sexist as what it claimed to oppose. What I think is missing is a leader preaching unity - a Gandhi or a Martin Luther-King. I know, they're both guys, but they're my heros.


Feminism ... some words

Post 10

PaullyB

But don't you find plenty of us screaming "women this" and "women that", and often complaining about women in regard to the other??

I'm not sure that men and women are ever going to be equally suitable for the same things. Sure, everyone should be able to try stuff, but in general women may find the set of things they can do is slightly different to that of men. However I don't believe it's true that women should always cook, clean and child-mind while men earn money and drink beer.


Feminism ... some words

Post 11

MisterBealy

My point was about screaming hypocrisies from the moral high ground. I try not to say "women this" and "women that" any more than I'd want to say "white people this" or "black people that". Although I suppose I'm guilty of a qualified "feminists this".

Of course, usenet would be far less traveled if people didn't keep filling it with reasons why women are better than men or beer is better than women, most of which are pretty dumb.

Apart from a few biological impossibilities, I don't believe that there is anything that a man can do and a woman can't and vice versa, but anyone out there is free to prove me wrong.


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 12

TBone

What's wrong with letting the cat drink in the toilet?


Feminism ... some words

Post 13

PaullyB

OK, so I set aside physical aspects such as competing against men in most top-level sport, as it's perhaps not perceived fair. And I set aside what the majority of men might be pre-disposed to as compared to women, as there will almost always be exceptions. Some may argue that both the aspects mentioned are fair game.

After ruling-out a large chunk of life, I struggle to think of anything else relevant, but then I've never thought I've got much imagination. Something may occur to me later, but don't hold your breath!


Feminism ... some words

Post 14

MisterBealy

Yes but the point is that women can compete against men at the top levels of sport. Linford Christy can run 100m; Sally Gunnel can run 100m. I can run 100m but not as fast as Sally Gunnel. Is the argument that women can't do the same jobs as men based on the couple of hundredths of a second that separates these athletes' personal bests? We're talking about ability not world records and besides, most of the time if you want to get ahead you've got to work smart, as well as hard. It'll take a braver man than I to suggest that men are smarter.


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 15

Xanthus

My brother always asked me to put the toilet seat down because of the cats. I'm sure somewhere there's a case where a cat had fallen in and drowned - that's a fair thing to worry about. I believe that debate always boils down to compomise which is why femanists ask for what is beyond equality - ask for the earth and settle for less - a valid point. But when some men resist and others agree, then those that agree in equality get a bit of a bad time. Offering my seat to a girl tonight, for example, I had to think twice about - am I being patronising? Does she think I'm trying to get in her pants? Help us to help you, please girls! Even now saying 'girls' I feel uncomfortable - patronising? I don't know - women to me sounds even worse. Help!


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 16

MisterBealy

How about from now on refering to us as XYs and the ladies as XX's?
Of course, that's going to lead to a problem down the line ...


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 17

Fuzzy

Hrm, it seems that feminism is a well rounded discussion topic, as there are several opiniated groups that can throw words at each other. Women who arent feminists, and are comfy with their station in life (Im not labeling that station at all, merely saying they're happy with it whatever it may be), will seem adverse to feminists, and think of them as a little too extreme. The feminists themselves will of course being very opiniated on everything, and seem rash a times. But they do at the least stand for what they believe, and though they may not ALWAYS justify what they stand for, often they can (the smart ones anyways). Then there are the typical "guys" who will despise the women for changing a traditional mindset that keeps men in a kind of superior position. And then there's where I stand, being a guy, not necessarily for the feminist movement, but agreeing with some of it. I have a great respect for women, and though Im all for chivalry and a display gentlemenly conduct, I really dont mind if women try to grab hold of some kind of control in society. Women are humans too, and though they often think differently, who's to say different is bad? Ive often found women to be a little more rational than men. They're also more nurturing, as is in their nature. What Im rambling on about here is that in my opinion, women should do what they please, but not lose sight of how beneficial it can be to allow a man to follow his instinct and be protective and giving to them. And men should respect women's wishes to try out all the things in life.


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 18

vita brevis

All feminism means is equality of opportunity, no more, no less.

And about the toilet seat- have you ever wandered into the bathroom, blurry-eyed in the morning, and automatically sat down- only to get a cold rude shock because the seat is up? I suspect this is a female experience, but feel free to try it...


Feminism ... some thoughts

Post 19

Technoyokel (muse of poetry)

I call myself a feminist though I am not involved in "the movement" if there is one. I think men and women are both people .

I am a feminist because men and women are not treated equally and do not have equal rights. Oh it's great when the UK parliament is praised for having so many women MP's - how many?- 100ish out of 650ish. How many women are there in the UK compared to men - about 51%.

Men and women may well be different but I'm not a nurturing type person, my husband is - this all means nothing, people are people.

Call me a girl or a lady if you must and if you call the counterparts boys and gentlemen.


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Feminism ... some thoughts

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