A Conversation for 'A Clockwork Orange' by Anthony Burgess
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine Started conversation May 19, 2001
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A561304
An article on the book. Any comments welcomed...
Emily
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Barton Posted May 20, 2001
I like this a lot. It's short and concise. Unless you were willing to attack this book in huge detail, I can't think of anything that should be added. You seem to have caught all the significant points of discussion with just enough detail to help someone attack the book without spoiling any of the key issues.
Very well done!
Barton
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Researcher 168963 Posted May 20, 2001
Good article, I liked it.
BUT the last chapter ommision was deliberate. Burgess was desperate to get the book published (he was skint) and when the US publishers offered a contract on condition that the last chapter was cut he agreed.
Apparently they didn't like it.
When the film missed out the last chapter is was cos Kubrick used the US version, but apparently when told of the last chapter he read it and said it was a rubbish ending. The US critics said that the ommited version had a more realistic ending while the original had a contrived unreal ending.
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine Posted May 20, 2001
Added the bit about the publishers and the argument about the validity of the conclusion, but I'd read a conflicting report about the reason for Kubrick's ommision of the final chapter, so I'm leaving that for now...
Any better?
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
mynameisomar Posted May 20, 2001
I loved the book and i think you could mebbe make the tone a little less academic. It'd be a lot less grating and it will score you points for wit.
Of course, the ending has resulted in one of the biggest debates and one of the meatiest grounds for poor Anglo-American relations. Burgess' ending was more realistic than what US publishers think. Hollywood seems to enjoy bathing in the immorality of its characters and believing that humans have no capacity for remorse and repentance. You could say the US film industry is the Clockwork Orange. Far too often characters are either black or white and their destinies are almost predetermined.
Burgess was one case in English literature that defied that belief. Another was Irvine Welsh. Imagine Trainspotting without a hopeful ending, its just inhumane.
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine Posted May 20, 2001
Personally, I don't think that the ending is particularly hopeful. Yes, Alex realises that his violence was a thing of his youth and the Ludovico technique is reversed, but he has achieved nothing - he is placed in his job by a government that has exploited him, and Pete just leads a sad, pointless life. The government has made no advances in tackling crime, and the problems will perpetuate.
A bit of a eaxmple of political spin on the part of the minister of the interior and inferior, if you ask me.
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Wayfarer -MadForumArtist, Keeper of bad puns, Greeblet with Goo beret, Tangential One Posted May 25, 2001
what *is* the "Ludovico Technique"? could you explain that?
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine Posted May 25, 2001
I've added a hint of explanation - but it's difficult to do that without giving away the whole plot of the book, which I'd rather not do. Unless it's really necessary, I'd really rather take it out again.
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Barton Posted May 25, 2001
That is the method used in the book to reprogram the lead character so that he is unable to be violent, even in defense of himself.
Jumping into those kinds of details would turn this article into a deep discussion of this book, which truly deserves deep examnination, but that would be an entirely different article.
Such a treatment of the book would ultimately belong over in the University Philosophy progject, which would, in turn, open it up to enormous proportions.
Barton
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine Posted May 25, 2001
Slightly off topic - do you think I would be able to do a project like that, analysing certain books in great depth? Now that would be fun - if only I had enough time...
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Barton Posted May 25, 2001
You can do whatever you want. They just may not want it for the *edited* guide.
If you really want to start a project, you can do it informally from your space and invite others to participate with or without your editorial guidance OR you could go over to the University and see about doing it formally from there.
I'm sure there are others who would be interested in such a thing. The only problem is that doing it formally would require *someone* or *some committee* to be in charge.
Barton
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide! Posted May 28, 2001
Hmmm... I don't know. I agree that you don't want to go into an in depth discussion of the text here, but I definitely think there's some more info that would really add to the entry. For example:
* a little bit more about the author
* the ways in which different countries reacted to the book and to the movie
personally, I will always find it interesting that this book (along with "to kill a mockingbird") is banned in some schools and is required reading in others..... it was required in my "crime and punishment" literature class...
Mikey
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine Posted May 28, 2001
I looked at some other entries on individual titles, such as "Brighton Rock" by Graham Greene, and they didn't address the author, or indeed the film starring a very scary Richard Attenborough as Pinkie. However, if you think it needs it I'll have a go.
I won't be doing it just yet though, because I've got my A-levels at the moment...
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
Swiv (decrepit postgrad) Posted May 28, 2001
oh in that case you can certainly spare the time
Most productive time to write entries in my experience
btw does anyone know where I can get hold of the Brighton Rock film on video? I want to see it
Congratulations!
h2g2 auto-messages Posted May 29, 2001
Editorial Note: This thread has been moved out of the Peer Review forum because this entry has now been recommended for the Edited Guide.
If they have not been along already, the Scout who recommended your entry will post here soon, to let you know what happens next. Meanwhile you can find out what will happen to your entry here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/SubEditors-Process
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
Wayfarer -MadForumArtist, Keeper of bad puns, Greeblet with Goo beret, Tangential One Posted May 29, 2001
*for the second tome today doing this, a bit late.* *coffs* *ahem* thanks for you reccommendation! you'll be glad to know that this is a Great! entry and has been started along the long and windy path of the editorial process towards inclusion in the Edited Guide! you'll be emailed when it does get in, but please keep in mind that that can take awhile. thanks for writing for the Guide!
Key: Complain about this post
A561304 - "A Clockwork Orange" - Anthony Burgess
- 1: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 19, 2001)
- 2: Barton (May 20, 2001)
- 3: Researcher 168963 (May 20, 2001)
- 4: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 20, 2001)
- 5: mynameisomar (May 20, 2001)
- 6: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 20, 2001)
- 7: Barton (May 21, 2001)
- 8: Wayfarer -MadForumArtist, Keeper of bad puns, Greeblet with Goo beret, Tangential One (May 25, 2001)
- 9: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 25, 2001)
- 10: Barton (May 25, 2001)
- 11: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 25, 2001)
- 12: Barton (May 25, 2001)
- 13: Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide! (May 28, 2001)
- 14: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 28, 2001)
- 15: Swiv (decrepit postgrad) (May 28, 2001)
- 16: Emily 'Twa Bui' Ultramarine (May 28, 2001)
- 17: h2g2 auto-messages (May 29, 2001)
- 18: Wayfarer -MadForumArtist, Keeper of bad puns, Greeblet with Goo beret, Tangential One (May 29, 2001)
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