h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Good or bad idea?

Is the European cup already developing into this?

Personally I think the whole idea sucks but unfortunately the club I support (Liverpool) appear to be one of the prime movers for it. I do not want an abandoning of Liverpool vs. Charlton or Man Utd versus Ispwich etc. as I want to care about the result. In a european cup, fine, that's ok but I find it hard to get involved with teams from other countries too much as they are not familiar places to me. Local derbies are some of the most passionate games going. Can you imagine the same rivalry between Arsenal and Barcelona?

I think for all it faults we currently have the Super League in the Champions League format - interestingly audience interest in this appears to have peaked and I wouldn't be surprised if all this talk about super leagues tends to die down and we see more restoration of simple knock-out cup games - one things for sure - if the money goes away then clubs interest in the subject will also fade away. Most people across Europe see their own league the most interesting and pan- european compettion as an extra. Lets hope the voice and actions of the supporter are heeded.

Money is certainly a big mover in this. I noticed a while back that two of the leading clubs advocating it were Liverpool and AC Milan - two former European superpowers who at the time coudn't qualify for the Chamions League - hence their interest in the superleague - something they would automatically be in without having to qualify.
Fans' interests better be heeded otherwise they might find the bottom dropping out of the money drawer. Individual player's wages already seem to exceed many clubs entire seasons gate reciepts (within the Premiership I might add) - I can't help thinking that someday soon one of the big clubs is going to pay big time for this - Chelsea spring to mind as they don't look like qualifing for anything in Europe at the moment - how do they then balance the books?

But as Arsene has pointed out clubs like Real Madrid are cheating because they are £53 million in debt and therefore should no longer be trading. I would imagne that AC Milan will spend a huge amount that they don't have to try and regain competitiveness. What bank is going to foreclose on a major football club? - not while there are pots of money around to be won - though personally I think it couldn't happen to a nicer guy than Mr Bates if Chelsea get into trouble.

I'm happy that Arsenal have not floated on the stockmarket and seem to have clubs queuing up to pay over the odds for our unsettled payers. £ 40 million for Overmars and Ratboy? I'll take it. £5 million for a guy who can't hod down a first team place at Barca? Loverly.

Strange you should mention it but apparently AC Milan are wanting to bit 40 million for David Beckham and 30 million for Michael owen this summer. I talked to a Man U fan at work and we agreed we would be quite happy with this. You could expand the squad with several players of vast potential with that sort of money. Of course, this story appeared in the Sun so it MUST be true
Aren't Real Madrid continually being bailed out by the King of Spain?

One of the bods at AC is busy going round pouring cold water on all these rumours - probably 'cos he knows that the price has just gone up for anyone he does want to buy.

My understainding is that Real are some £53 million in debt and lets face it no real prospect of seeing a return on that money. I don't think other clubs and certainly not English ones would be allowed to trade in that sort of financial position. I believe it is one of the issues being discussed with the EC along with player transfers - the two do go hand in hand after all - although its not getting the attention of transfers. Something about clubs having to prove their solvency. Since the Italian clubs are suffering from Reals unrealistic trading I reckon they may be keen on tightening up on this so it may be a goer. A few years back Italian clubs ran into a financial brick wall and their dominance in Europe has faltered, Spain seems to be taking up the reins. There needs to be equal footing otherwise its like governments subsidising industry - not allowed under EC rules.

When did Italy hit this brick wall? Did Lazio not buy Hernan Crespo for about 37 million last summer?

Around the time we were returning to European competition - I seem to recall that soomeone signed an Italian player for some obscenely large sum only for him to promptly break his leg possibly in a car crash, making everyone in Italy and especially financiers taking a step back - clubs found the financial strings tightening and Spanish clubs starting signing the best of South American talent - some of whom have subsequently moved to Serie A. It was a couple of years before the likes of Zola and Ravenelli came here, so it was a while ago and they are beginning to spend again no doubt citing Spanish success as the reason. Spending £37 million and failing to suceed in the Champions League will not be sustainable long term - Lazio seem to be a club who go through phases of overspending and buying short term success and then have long periods where they recover from that spending.

I tottally agree with the above. I live in Holland and our three leading club (Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV) want to participate in the European league. To my understanding this league would contain clubs from The Netherlands, Danmark, Scotland, Belgium an other countries where the market (read possibities to advertise) is small.

Overhere is assumed that the clubs in England are rich. Especially Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal. The boards of these clubs have the opinion that they can't compete anymore with the European top (like Man Utd, FC Barcelona, Real Madrid etc.). The reason is that most topclubs in Europe have a large market where they can sell their stuff. For Example Man Utd, which club has supporters all over the world. The revenues on shirts and other products are therfore much higher than a smaller club like Ajax or Feijenoord.

Therefore they want the european league so they can compete with other european clubs without being uncertain if they are going to make for the next season. Like Ajax is now struggling to reach the Championsleague and they probably won't make it. Since Ajax has a notation on the stockmarket this is not good for the shareholders.
In this context I can understand the reasons.

I don't understand (and many with me) why a club like Real Madrid can have a great debt and buy such expensive players. In the Netherlands each professional club has to make sure that their balance is accurate otherwise their license will be withdrawn. This should be rule all over Europe so the basis for each club is equal.

The European League that you are thinking of is the North European League - this is a concept which is not totally based no greed but on the desire to raise the level of football in the countries mentioned. In Holland the 3 pre-eminent clubs have won the League forever, in Scotland there are 2 clubs who have won the league in the recent past (something like the last 18 years), Denmark was shocked when lowly Herfolge won the league last season! Now if all the 'top' clubs had a league of their own there would be some competition instead of the current situation where the outcome is so predictable and the standard of football would rise. The clubs left behind in the national leagues would actually have something to play for - the question is would anyone be watching?
The other European League concept is a purely money driven idea - the biggest clubs (who may not be very successful at the moment in European terms) do not want the uncertainty about whether they will have their snouts in the trough next season! What these money driven ideas do not take into account is the previously expressed LACK of interest on the part of the supporters in such a scheme - while the current European nights at Highbury (and Old Trafford, Elland Road and Anfield) are great fun and an opportunity to see some great footballers I would NEVER swap the traditional rivalries with all the other London teams or the oportunity to see all the talented players who play for other English teams on a permanent basis.
While the attendance figures for the champions League have held up pretty well in England there have been some very poor attendances at some of the matches, especially in Italy, which were perceived as irrelevant to the continued participation of one of the teams involved! I think that this factor may well put the idea of a European League to rest once and for all.

I agree. No real supporter is waiting for games like Ajax-Juventus to replace Ajax-Feijenoord (the match in Holland). The historie and feelings at a match between Ajax-Fijenoord, Arsenal-Chelsea, Rangers-Celtic is much bigger than games who are based on money.

Sometimes I wonder if clubs realize that the supporters made the club great. It seems to me that supporters don't count anymore. Everybody is chasing the big money and forgets what it is all about.

Sport is emotion not money.

I think the clubs, and more importantly, the TV companies are finally beginning to realise that the knockout stages of the Champions League are far more attractive to the fans than the league stages.
The fact that Man Utd could get knocked out of Europe this week means their match is far more interesting than, say, their matches against Sturm Graz or Panathinaikos in the group stage.

As for Spanish domination of Europe, I think these things go in circles. Real Madrid dominated the 50s and early 60s, English clubs dominated the 70s and Italian clubs in the 80s.
What I think is really sad is that we ar unlikely to ever again to see a club like Borussia Monchengladbach or St Etienne challenge for the trophy let alone see a club like Nottingham Forest or Aston Villa win it.

"the knockout stages of the Champions League are far more attractive to the fans than the league stages"
I presume you mean the fans of the successful teams? In a knock out competition the fans of the losing teams lose all interest in the competition when their team is knocked out (except for wishing that the team who knocked you out go on to EITHER lose in totally humiliating fashion OR win the competition so that you can say that you only lost to the eventual winner!).
Yes, knock out competitions are much more exciting in the short term. Imagine if the World Cup was run like that though - some countries would have nothing real to play for during most of the two years preceding every world cup! What then? Meaningless 'friendlies'? And how would the finals be arranged? At what stage would the TV companies start broacasting matches world wide? The last 16? The last 32? Would the last 32 go and play their matches in one country over a period of say 3 weeks or would they be more spread out and played over two legs, home and away?

I totally agree with you that the world cup has to stay the same ... although as a Welshman I doubt I'll get to a finals tournament in my lifetime .
The main difference between the world cup and the Champions League is that every club has their own domestic competition in which to play once they have been knocked out.

The only change I would make to the World Cup is that I think there should be a panel set up who select ONE team to participate in the Final tournament made up of the best players from teams who have not qualified. It is really sad that some great players will never get the chance to take part in the Final because they come from a very small country e.g. George Best, Ryan Giggs, George Weah.

I don't agree Nitpicker.
The knockout stages are interesting for the fact that a small team can beat a big team. See the FA-cup this year where a small club (I can't recall their name) made it to the semi-finals.
The league-system provides a certain guarantee to the big clubs that they will reach to the quarter finals. It doesn't matter if you lose one or two games because if you win the other games you finish high enough to make make it to the following round.

I don't mean that the smaller countries should not have the chance to qualify. What I would like to see is a composite team of the very best players from the countries that have not qualified for the final tournament i.e. those three players I named above whose skills should have been seen around the world.
I love the fact that Wycombe Wanderers got to the semi-final of the F.A. Cup this season and it is exactly what domestic cup competitions should be about - I wish they had got to the final so that I could travel to Cardiff with more hope of winning but I suppose it just depends on which Arsenal team turns up on the day! And which Liverpool team for that matter (the one which beat ManUre or the one that lost to Leeds?)

I think we might have a problem here.
I don't even know who George Best is. And as far as my knowledge goes is Weah a player from Nigeria, which country was represented at the last WorldCup.
Why don't you mention the forward from Man.Utd. from Trinidad and Tobago (I always forget who it is, Yorke or Cole).
I think this would be very hard to decide which player should be selected. And who is going to be a member of the selection commitee??

DOn't ger me wrong I would love the idea, but I am realistic, it would be hard to select the right players.

It would be very hard to select the team but I am sure some way could be found! The fact that you don't know who George Best is speaks for itself - he was a brilliant ManUre player who is from Northern Ireland (now relegated to being of interest mainly because he has and always has had a very severe drink problem). Ditto George Weah - he comes from Liberia not Nigeria and was European Footballer of the Year (twice?). And it is Yorke who plays for Trinidad and Tobago - Cole is English but has not won many caps at all (not sure why - racism? needs too many chances to score?) Maybe they could have a ballot like that for Footballer of the Year but divided into categories (goalkeeper, midfielder, manager etc)?

Thank you for updateing my footbalknowledge.

You ridea seems not very bad, do you anyone at the EUFA or the FIFA. It looks like a decent proposal.