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Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 61


Changing the name wouldn't mean that you couldn't ask questions there.

It is just recognising that ask is more than a place to put a question, it has evolved into more than that and has it own characteristics.

It is a very simple solution compared to trying to 'clean it up'

It is swimming against the tide I think to change an established forum like Ask and if honest I shudder a little at the thought that h2g2 would ever be really tidy.

Either leave as it is and let it get on with it or change the name and let it get on with it

The Lounge sounds like it is going to be a more hosted forum and I can see that there would be some overlap between The Lounge and Ask but I think there is scope for the both. I think the lounge has great potential and see no reason why h2g2 couldn't have two smiley - love, it works for the Doctor smiley - winkeye

A key issue for me about Ask is that it quite difficult to have a discussion rather than a debate. If the lounge is more hosted then discussion might be able to take place there, that is very appealing to me. As does have somewhere new.

Having good quality discussions and debate is a good draw to a site
also the difficulties in having them has resulted in people unsubbing from the forum and in some cases leave the site to go elsewhere.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 62


oh I was replying to SashaQ, and fielding a phonecall or two so Pastey has posted in the meantime

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 63


"It is swimming against the tide" No, it's working *with* the tide.

I do feel like I've said this many times, and it's not getting through, so I shall be clear here:

The majority of people asked want this change.

And sorry to belabour the point here Peanut, but you have no idea about what the Lounge is, what we've got planned, or how it will work.

You're making assumptions based on guesses. If you have constructive ideas, go put them in that brainstorming thread. If not, then wait and see if what we do based on those constructive ideas is something you can live with. If it is, yay great. If it's not, go build your own site.

(yes, it's the like it, lump it, or leave solution smiley - winkeye)

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 64


Posted in the meantime? My post was there for over half an hour before you posted, so somehow I don't believe you.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 65


I had pressed reply to SashaQ post, it does take me a while to write and to order my thoughts, plus the phonecalls so it took me over half an hour to write

Yes I was a little mortified then when after I had previewed and posted I read your post smiley - groan

It is a very unkind thing to say that I lying and I am upset by that

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 66


You seem to be of the opinion that I wish to stir things and make trouble. I don't and I am very uncomfortable with how you are persistently painting me in that light.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 67



That's a little uncalled for Pastey

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 68


I would like you to stop with the like it, lump it or leave with me Pastey. Sorry a smiley - winkeye doesn't cut it given your overall response to me in this thread and in the other one.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 69


Sorry Peanut, but I don't actually care whether you like it or not.

I don't believe you, I started as much. I'm not name calling, I'm not singling you out, as you pointed out when you said my recent like, lump or leave attitude was seen a fair bit recently.

So you don't like it? Tough.

I've pointed out how you can constructively help, feel free to do so. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 70

SashaQ - happysad

Yes, as someone else who takes ages to brew posts and has been told off for it elsewhere, I sympathise with peanut. I think it's important for us all to remember forums aren't phonecalls, so we do have to be more patient when waiting for responses...

I have three windows open at the moment, so I can do my best to check for new replies before I post mine, but it's not easy at this rate of writing... smiley - cdouble That's what the smiley - simpost smiley was made for, though smiley - ok

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 71

SashaQ - happysad

"oh I was replying to SashaQ, and fielding a phonecall or two so Pastey has posted in the meantime"

smiley - ok

I had wondered if you missed my post, as I was agreeing with you that Ask already does what it says on most of its tins, so in that sense it doesn't need cleaning up or renaming. I also wondered if Pastey missed it, as his reply answered your points, but I see his was a reply to my post, so the thread is not tangled. smiley - ok

I'm a bit confused by everything at the moment - I thought I understood Ask, but defining it as information seeking or fix forum is more complex, since seeking information about people's opinions is not the same as asking for answers to fix a problem, but each are valid questions in different senses... I too think the Lounge sounds like having great potential, though, and I look forward to being less confused in due course. smiley - ok

Something I have also wondered about recently:

"The majority of people asked want this change."

Who was asked and what was the question?

smiley - biggrin

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 72

Witty Moniker

I find it unsurprising that repeatedly posting the same unmodified opinion would elicit the same unmodified response.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 73


I have nothing to prove to you Pastey. Again I will say it is abundantly clear of what you think of me, the person I am and that is extremely fixed.

I am quite shocked at your responce to a request that you stop telling me like it, lump it or leave, both of which I think is very disrespectful.

You have issues with what I am posting, I don't see particularly why and you trying to turn that back on to me.

It is upsetting me and has no place on this thread.

That you don't care that you are upsetting another person and can not take the most basic remedial action to moderate your tone is your bad, not mine and really no, I don't think I should just have to take it

I really don't know what else to say

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 74

Witty Moniker

Sasha, there was a thread created back in late 2012 in the Ask forum. It was entitled 'How do you use askh2g2' and it was started by Happy Nerd. The results were compiled into a report that was presented to the Core Team for consideration. There was overwhelming support for restoring the forum to its original purpose.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 75


I always think of a *simpost* being in a fast moving conversation and that it doesn't quite apply my ability to take an age to reply smiley - laugh

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 76

Icy North

Yes, I too may have voted for teams of marauding Ask Police scanning the forum and rapidly removing threads they didn't believe were written in the interrogative case. The machismo appealed to me, not to mention the uniforms.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 77


It's the rubber isn't it Icy? That and being able to shout "Resistance is useless!" smiley - winkeye

Which reminds me Icy, you should get the full mock ups and explanation of the proposal later this week. Don't forget to feed back on it smiley - smiley

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 78

Baron Grim

OK... I'm not going to bite my tongue anymore.

Pastey, you should really reconsider your tone.

You keep insisting there isn't an "us and them" here, but the reality is you are an italic. You represent the site at large and in person. As such your tone carries more to it than simply your opinion as a user. And when you tell other users to lump it or leave it, or you take an adversarial and accusatory tone with researchers it is not just off-putting to the person you're addressing, it's off-putting to many others here as well. When you represent an organization you must temper your reactions. The old saying, "the customer is always right" was coined for a reason. Even if a customer is absolutely wrong, as a representative of a business or a shop or even a website, one must try to keep a civil tone and "grin and bear it" if they must. Even when the customer or user is wrong (and I'm not saying any one is here in particular, I'm just making a point from the knowledge I gained working in customer service for several years) if you take a personal tone you risk not only alienating the person you're addressing but also anyone else witnessing the exchange and anyone that person speaks to of the exchange and they ALWAYS will.

I have seen other instances where you have come across as having a personal issue with others on here and I fear some people may have been inclined to take your advice to leave and that is absolutely NOT what we want people to do, especially over personal issues of tone or personality.

I know you're doing a lot of great work here voluntarily and it can be very frustrating when you perceive this as not being appreciated, but sometimes you need to take a breath and not react to that frustration. You also need to learn to not take things personally because quite often it is easy to take things personally that really aren't personal. It's very easy to misunderstand the emotional content behind text and personalities can clash when they needn't. It's also easy to become defensive when one needn't.

And also, don't take this personally. I've seen some other personality clashes here recently that I feel were unnecessary and mostly due to misunderstandings of tone. I know I've been guilty of this myself and I find it very ugly when I realize what an ass I can come across as when I get overly defensive especially when I wasn't being attacked in the first place.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 79


If my tone comes across as abrasive, that I apologise for. It's not my intention.

However, the frustrating part is answering the same question again, and again, and again. Of being accused of not listening to the community, which is inferring that I don't have the best intentions for them for this site. And all by the same one or two individuals.

I'm also fed up that some individuals feel it's okay to keep wasting the volunteers time, to keep breaking the rules and then claiming innocence.

As for the personality clashes that you mention that might be a cause of others leaving the site, if they are the ones I think you mean, I can assure you that there's far more to them than has been posted on public forums.

Deathlist and Condolances threads on Ask

Post 80

Secretly Not Here Any More

So, in summary:

Ask isn't the right place for obituaries
Deathlist isn't the right place for obituaries
The Lounge might be but that's not ready yet
Many exciting things are planned, but are taking lots of time and effort

As with everything that happens when people are working really hard (or are otherwise emotionally invested) in something as huge and sprawling as h2g2, things will take a while and everything will require stopgap methods here and there.

How about we all relax, take a step back, and focus on some productive things?

I mean, discussions about Tony Benn (who triggered this debate) would fit quite nicely on a Tony Benn entry. Anyone fancy tackling that one?

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