A Conversation for Spiritual Satanism
Peer Review: A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Started conversation Jan 18, 2005
Entry: Spiritual Satanism - A3531115
Author: enkiraeyn - U1252877
Spritual Satanism is a "modern" form of ancient pagan religions.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jan 19, 2005
Hi, Spawn of Satan!
This is an interesting entry, but there's a lot in this that you will have to explain before this is acceptable to the Guide. It assumes a lot of things which are not obvious to the average reader. Try and pitch the description so that the average reader, who is probably an Agnostic, can understand it.
How many supporters does this religion have? (Roughly) Are we talking millions, thousands or just a handful?
You say "Ptah is now known as Satan". To whom is he now known as Satan? On what basis do you say that the Satan that the Jews/Christians/Muslims revile is the same entity that the followers of this religion worship as Ptah/Enki?
You say "parts of the old texts were stolen and changed to suit Christianity". Which parts are these? Christianity's earliest writings are Hebrew, not Egyptian. Are you saying that parts of the Christian Bible are translations into Hebrew of Egyptian text? Which parts?
You say "Satanists practice telekinesis, Pyrokinesis, telepathy, astral projection" - since no one has ever successfully demonstrated any of these abilities, I presume you mean that they're only practising but will actually start doing them real soon now.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
sprout Posted Jan 19, 2005
Hail Spawn of Satan (great name, by the way)
As well as Gnomon's wise comments, you might also what to mention what an adherent of this 'religion' does in terms of religious practice. For example, are upside down crucifixes involved? (we've all seen Rosemary's Baby, so you might want to debunk/confirm a few myths?)
Do they have a hierarchy (Deputy Assistant Satan, second Beezlebub in command, etc etc?
Are they opposed to Christians?
Basically, spell it out for us a bit more.
sprout
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Jan 19, 2005
*Sigh.*
1: Satan actually has far more in common with the Egpytian god Seti than with Ptah. The Temple of Set believes that Seti is in fact Satan.
2: Ptah was never a god, he was a deified king.
3: Ptah was never considered to be a creator god, that honour usually went to Ra, or occasionally Sebek or Nu.
4: Satanism was never used to describe a particular pagan religeon. It always meant devil worship until Anton LaVey adopted the word for his religeon in order to attract attention. LaVey's thing would have been exactly the same if he had simply called it LaVeyism or something, but it would have gone extinct withing a week. Call it Satanism and you get a whole bunch of wannabe goths to prop up the numbers. This is like Wiccans claiming their religeon predates Christianity, when in fact it does not.
5: You are correct that Christians portrayed the old gods as demons. However, this was not some sort of conspiracy as this entry implies. I suspect it was a simple misunderstanding. Also, not all the old gods became demons. Some, such as Isis, were adopted into Christianity as angels or good spirits.
6: "they may, at times, have to call Satanism by some other name to escape the torment or wrath of over-bearing Christian parents"
Sorry, but Satan has been the main evil of Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam from the beginning. This statement is bull****. Also, why do they have to protect themselves from their parents? Are all 'Spiritual Satanists' disaffected, rebellious teenagers or something?
7: "there are entities, which are anti-Satanic, such as the angels (obviously), which seek the destruction of Satanists, Satanism, and Satan."
Well, duh. Read any holy book of the religeons I mentioned and you will see that from the start, Satanism was a fallen angel who rebelled against the good ways and wants humanity to do all kinds of bad s***. Now I'm far from a creationist or fundamentalist, but it seems to me that 'Spiritual Satanism' is in fact more a plot of Choronzon to drag us all into the abyss tha it is a way for reaching our full potential.
Chew on that, SoS.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Posted Jan 19, 2005
Ptah was known in Egypt as the creator god. I felt that adding a source (or a few) might help clear this up.
http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/ptah.htm
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/ptah.html
http://ta-tenen.exsudo.com/
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/religion/godslist.html
I hope this proves my point.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jan 19, 2005
Sos, I don't want you to explain all that stuff to me, I want you to put it into the entry. Otherwise, this hasn't a hope of ever being picked for the Guide.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Posted Jan 21, 2005
I did add to the entry. I just was clearing up the fact that Ptah was a creator god.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jan 21, 2005
This still doesn't make any sense. You say that Enki was the creator and that the Christians renamed him Satan. But Satan is not the Christian creator god. The Christian Creator god is called Yahweh. So I ask again. On what basis do you say that Ptah/Enki is anything to do with the Christian Satan?
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jan 21, 2005
You say 'Parts of the old texts were stolen and changed to suit Christianity. One example is the story of "Adam and Eve".'
But the Christians took that from the Jews and have always said so, not from the Sumerians. Perhaps the Jews stole it, but that doesn't mean that the CHristians stole it.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jan 21, 2005
I'd say that if Enki was the creator then probably his nearest equivalent in Christian terms is God Almighty himself, the one that Christians call Yahweh, the one and only god. I stress the Christian view only because it is the one that most English-speaking readers will be familiar with. I'm not a Christian myself.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Jan 21, 2005
Also, the Christian church has always been well aware of the difference between Satanism and Paganism. In the Middle Ages, the Vatican caimed that they were >allies< in a scheme to bring us all to Hell. Sure, it wasn't very flattering, but the point is that Pagans were never really accused of being Satanists.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jan 23, 2005
As Gnomon says, you really need to tighten up your facts, and you need to be clear in your own mind what you are trying to say in the entry. some of it just doesn't make any sense at all, and some of it goes off-point. Think about what you are saying.
>The Church of Satan, though mostly atheistic - Can you be 'mostly atheistic'? Surely mostly atheistic is 'agnostic'? Or is the church of Satan unsure?
>have to call Satanism by some other name to escape the torment or wrath of over-bearing parents - This is the kind of thing that detracts from your entry. Is this an entry on the religion, or how it fits into teen angst?
>the main way of communicating is through online forums for Spiritual Satanism - Are you sure? Is that how the religion survived 2000 years, through the internet???
You are obviously clever enough to write an interesting and intelligent piece, and have provided the bare bones, but please spare us the 'standing up for yourself' theme and give us the quality entry you are clearly capable of.
I hope you get this sorted out as potentially you could have a very good entry indeed.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Posted Mar 14, 2005
I did try to refine and address these questions in the entry. Quite frankly, I don't really think it will become a real entry, I just made it so that people who are really interested in it can find it and learn. I am not a great world class writer, which is why I provided sites that I got my information from. From the comments I receive and insulting mail I've gotten, I don't think there are many people who really would like to take the time and learn what I'm trying to get across, or to even listen at all. For those people who think I'm just an idiot, or a pathetic person who is just trying to be rebellious, I have this to say: I believe whole-heartedly in what I do and practice; many people I know, and others I don't, know that what I say is true; I have no intent on changing my beliefs as I have made my final decision and this is it; finally, many people have tried to quiet me or change my beliefs-it hasn't, and won't, work. If there are any more SUGGESTIONS for the entry, I would like to hear them. Any personal problems with my religion, keep to yourselves.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Apollyon - Grammar Fascist Posted Mar 14, 2005
Question - if it truly is a remnant of ancient polytheism with nothing really to so with Christianity, why is it called 'Satanism'?
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Posted Mar 15, 2005
I believe I answered that in part in the entry, but I'll say it again in case I didn't: It is an ancient pagan religion, originally Sumerian. However, over time, the names of the gods were changed, but remained the same, mostly, which is why it's Egyptian, etc. The names that were given to a few of the gods when Christianity/Judaism came around are used in reference to the gods for various reasons-people may be more familiar with them, or they may just like them better, etc-and the gods usually would have no problem with it, as long as it's not meant to insult. Most of the gods have multiple aliases, and all names that the priests/priestesses can find are made available. It's called Satanism because that's the most recent name that's been used for this religion/gods.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Skankyrich [?] Posted Mar 15, 2005
I still stand by my comments above. I don't have a problem with your religion, your writing style etc. but the fact is that this won't make the Edited Guide in its current form. If you're not prepared to listen to constructive criticism, why did you enter it into Peer Review in the first place?
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Posted Mar 15, 2005
I DID listen. I DID change parts in the entry. I said what I did in one of my past comments because a few people have been just insulting me and I'd like to know exactly what people think is wrong with my entry. However, if you've already said something about it, I'd advise you to check the entry first for anything regarding your comment, because I did alter a few parts of the entry according to what people suggested.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Mort - a middle aged Girl Interrupted Posted Mar 15, 2005
" I don't really think it will become a real entry, I just made it so that people who are really interested in it can find it and learn."
The good news is that anybody using the <./>search</.> facility will still find your entry even if it isn't in the Edited Guide
I am sorry that you feel you have had insulting mail. Peer review is to offer constructive critism on a piece of work. Sometimes debates can get quite heated though.
A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid Posted Mar 16, 2005
I changed a few more things in the entry today, and I think at least a few of them are addressing some things people have asked about.
Key: Complain about this post
Peer Review: A3531115 - Spiritual Satanism
- 1: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Jan 18, 2005)
- 2: Gnomon - time to move on (Jan 19, 2005)
- 3: sprout (Jan 19, 2005)
- 4: Apollyon - Grammar Fascist (Jan 19, 2005)
- 5: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Jan 19, 2005)
- 6: Gnomon - time to move on (Jan 19, 2005)
- 7: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Jan 21, 2005)
- 8: Gnomon - time to move on (Jan 21, 2005)
- 9: Gnomon - time to move on (Jan 21, 2005)
- 10: Gnomon - time to move on (Jan 21, 2005)
- 11: Apollyon - Grammar Fascist (Jan 21, 2005)
- 12: Skankyrich [?] (Jan 23, 2005)
- 13: Mort - a middle aged Girl Interrupted (Mar 6, 2005)
- 14: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Mar 14, 2005)
- 15: Apollyon - Grammar Fascist (Mar 14, 2005)
- 16: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Mar 15, 2005)
- 17: Skankyrich [?] (Mar 15, 2005)
- 18: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Mar 15, 2005)
- 19: Mort - a middle aged Girl Interrupted (Mar 15, 2005)
- 20: Enkiraeyn Hollenfeuer Teufel von Herzeleid (Mar 16, 2005)
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