h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This might be old news to people, but I've been confined to quarters for most of the week.

I've been reading various articles on various sites, and according to Richard Caborn, Minister for Sport views anyone who wants to stand up at a football match as a potential hooligan. Digging around a bit I found this:
http://football.guardian.co.uk/blueprint/story/0,,1606707,00.html
Apparently, by standing up in my seat at Elland Road, I'm contributing either to hooliganism or even another Hillsborough.

Conveniently forgetting that the Hillsborough tragedy was caused by a surge of people from outside into an enclosed pen and not by the fact that people were not sitting quietly, is it really that unsafe to stand at the match?
If bringing back terraces is a bad idea, should people be allowed to stand in front of their seats in specially designated areas?

I'm just wondering what the feeling is in these parts. As far as my views go, I think that if people want to stand in front of their little plastic shelves then they should be able to in certain parts of the ground (like the North Stand at ER, the Kop at Anfield, ManUre's Stretford End, etc) as long as everyone knows it's a standing area. Standing should be legislated for because people should be allowed a choice where possible when it comes to entertainment. If I can pick whether I want to sit or stand at a gig, then surely I should have the same freedom of choice at a game of football?

The day that people don't stand when watching a football match at some point in the game, will be the day when the game truely dies. In my humble opinion.

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Someone obviously feels strongly about it...

I'm sure that in Germany they have standing areas, where (say) there are 1,000 seats but no ticket numbers, so that you sit (or stand) wherever you like. I would love this to be introduced here. It would bring the atmosphere back to what it used to be at a lot of grounds.

(PS, wait for Celtic Park on Tuesday though, *that* will be an atmosphere to savour<nervous panic smiley&gt

I referred to the minister for sport as what you call a bit of butter.

A fair description of him I'd say...

I'd love to see a return to standing areas - perhaps make the back 3 rows a standing area or something.

But I can't see it happening - in today's corporate packaged anodyne world of football, the idea of passion on the terraces is to be discouraged. Today's fan wants his opinions spoon-fed to him by a suitably dressed presenter, whilst sitting in a nice war lounge area. Football knowledge is to be discouraged, though shades of meaning can be discussed by the newer, erudite fan. (Is Henry truely representantive of the Gallic expression, or has he been tempered by his time amongst a less cultured, but more driving nation ?)

Remember we live in a nation that thinks Alan Hanson, Ian Wright, and Mark Lawrenson are knowledgable on the finer points of a footballer's craft.

the only problem i see with standing is that the youngsters can't see!

at gerland the lower stands in the end are "all seating" but unnumbered, and in fact everybody's almost always standing. my son and i get seats above them to bask in the atmosphere but still get a good view...

once a few years ago we went for the "virage inférieur" and the guys around me took turns holding him on their shoulders, very nice! but now that he's almost 13 i don't think there will be any volunteers!

Having had to stand at a couple of away games recently and a number of junior football games on a Saturday my team wasn't playing I do miss the comaraderie of the terraces.

Back in my SPL-standard all seater home stadium I get told off my some of those around me for barracking the away bench, 3 rows in front, whilst remaining in my seat. I've even had a warning nod or two from the steward whilst I've remained sat in my seat (Just cause there ain't much passion and noise from those in my section). The effect has been seen by some of those around me as putting off the away management and on some occasions making them shout less instructions. Maybe you can take the standing away from the fan but you can't take away the terrace mentality.

"Remember we live in a nation that thinks Alan Hanson, Ian Wright, and Mark Lawrenson are knowledgable on the finer points of a footballer's craft."

Nobody on the planet's stupid enough to think Ian Wright's knowledgable, are they?

Seeing as we're wheeling out the standing anecdotes I've got two from tonight at Elland Road. Bearing in mind that Kenneth's dropped the prices to bring in the whinging ex-glory hunters and wind up season ticket holders (although the latter may not have been intended).
1) Clueless woman: After I'd removed her from my seat ("excuse me, that's my seat" "are you sure?" "yes. I've been sitting in it for four years now") she managed to find where she was supposed to be sat, shouted up until the referee blew his whistle and then sat down and looked confused when nobody did likewise.
2) Mad bloke: By half way through the first half the stewards had everyone in our section sat down barring a few of us on the back two rows and a single teenage lad about 8 rows in front. Cue mad bloke off to the side, apparently angered by his lack of prawn sandwich eating facilities screaming "sit the down you " at the poor lad for about 10 minutes whilst totally ignoring the football. The kid wasn't even in his line of sight. Unless mad bloke paid his 15 quid purely to stare at advertising hoardings and the corner flag...

The fact that Plymouth Argyle got promoted to a level where standing didn't happen any more and the fact that I started reporting on other teams matches rather than following my own are not entirely unrelated issues.

And I'm sure that the 14 year-old me who got into going to football in the late 80s wouldn't have been able to afford to go now, and may not have liked it anyway. I discovered the passion and chaos of the football terrace at the same time as I discovered the joys of the moshpit at medium-small indie gigs. Never did like stadium rock, which is what today's football is the equivalent of.

I used to wonder why they couldn't get around the problems of having to be all-seated by introducing bench seating in the ends without seat numbers - which would have the same effect as terracing in getting more of us in there at a lower price, enabling us to move about and find our mates, and squashing us in to generate a great atmosphere.

Any reason you don't wonder that any more GD?

I think standing should be reintroduced, rip out the first ten rows of seats or so, knock a third off the ticket price and get twice as many people in, and a better atmosphere. Makes sense for everyone i think.

I am now of an age where I do not want to stand up any longer BUT I do think that fans should have the choice. The problems, as I see it are

1. Clubs want the higher revenues that all-seating brings,
2. Clubs all want to take part in a European competition and UEFA Rools that we shall all sit down and
3. It is difficult/impossible to get planning permission for a new stadium with a standing area

The Germans have found a way around these issues by designing standing areas that are easily converted to seating if required. There are only two clubs in the Bundesliga who do not offer standing at all national matches and their prices are cheaper at all levels (they just have a greater capacity in that section when the fans are standing). (You might argue that the technical standard of their domestic football is not as high as the English game as a result of the lower income but that is a totally different issue).

For those of you who have never stood up for an entire match there are so many great aspects;
1. something about standing seems to encourage much more singing and terrace humour is just the best (new songs just appear on the spur of the moment from incidents in the match in front of you and the whole group catches on immediately),
2. when it is cold you stay much warmer due to the ‘penguin effect’ (everyone huddles together for warmth) and
3) if the person in front of you is taller than you it is possible to just walk to another part of the terrace where you can see.

Finally, it seems that all-seating is no guarantee of fans safety if Tuesday’s events in Lens are anything to go by …..

2. Clubs all want to take part in a European competition and UEFA Rools that we shall all sit down and

You sure about that? Loads of European CLubs have terraces still....

But are they not 'fake' terraces? When I used to go see Bordeaux play, they brought in these dinky little benches, about four inches wide. Nobody ever sat on them.

Ps - I agree that standing is a lot warmer - as well as huddling together you can stamp your feet, move about a bit.

Sprout

in france most seating takes the form of little backless seats bolted to a concrete bench that allow standing if the whole section does it (otherwise views are blocked)... the lower ends where the supporters' clubs go are unnumbered "seating", and in fact they stand.

I thought this news article would be of interest to the group : <./>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6444083.stm</.>

Very interesting indeed.