h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The thing I'm wondering right now is: How could the "coalition" get their intelligence so wrong? I'm not talking about WMD; I'm talking about the fact that the Shi'as, who were expected to be dancing in the streets when the "coalition" marched in, are now at the forefront of the "anti-coalition" protests and violence. Did the "coalition" know much of anything about Iraq before the war started?

With reference to my previous post, I guess you've all seen this already: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/04/world/baghdad_040404

" Seven American soldiers were killed Sunday when militants loyal to a Shiite Muslim cleric attacked security forces in a slum on the eastern outskirts of Iraq's capital city. . ."

It's b/c you have the planning left to Donald Rumsfeld - to me he appears to have tunnel vision. He saw what he wanted in Iraq. They didn't let the state department deal with post war Iraq. They actually knew something about Iraq, more than the Pentagon did anyway.

That's what happens when you let a bunch of neo-conservatives with no military experience make policy decisions. This is the policy that they've been pushing since Clinton was in office. Clinton would have no part of it - but Bush was weak enough to fall into Cheney's clutches, and things have been mucked up ever since.

From what I've heard on the radio today, it's getting worse every day. There was a battle in or aroud a mosque, and Rummy is 'cautioning' pilgrims...

No, the U.S. military dropped a ing bomb on a mosque. Super. Yeah, great, that'll fix everything.

What I keep hearing from the neo-conservative Repugnants is exactly the same kind of rhetoric they were spouting in Vietnam. 'We must win this war.' Against whom? Who are they fighting? The Iraqi people, that's who. And the more Iraqi people they kill, the more join the resistance to fight the Americans. The Iraqis hate the Americans just as much, if not more, than they hated Saddam.

I'm eager to see what Condoleeza Rice has to say. I expect it will be spun as finely as possible - she's as much a politician as the rest of her cronies, but she has less tolerance for bull... so we'll see.

don't trust anyone with an oil tanker named after them

Very sound advice, crazyhorse...

Fortunately recollecting the peroration of a speech, on the purifying influences of American democracy and their destined spread over the world, made by a certain eloquent senator (for whose vote in the Senate a Railway Company, to which my two brothers belonged, had just paid 20,000 dollars) I wound up by repeating its glowing predictions of the magnificent future that smiled upon mankind -- when the flag of freedom should float over an entire continent, and two hundred millions of intelligent citizens, accustomed from infancy to the daily use of revolvers, should apply to a cowering universe the doctrine of the Patriot Monroe.

Lord Lytton, The Coming Race, 1871.

Which kinda makes you think, doesn't it? The Monroe Doctrine was but one head of the beast of conservatism, which manifested itself in religious ideology, patriotism, international economic manipulation, and a disregard for our country's natural resources. When we chopped the heads off in the 1960's, nobody expected them to regrow.

But not everybody was affected by the brain-twisting revelations of the 60's. While the hippies were championing for world peace and love, the Young Repugnants were learning how to become good capitalists. Now that everybody's all grown up, we have one of the biggest splits in ideology that America has ever seen. On one side are the Christian fanatics, the Americans for a New Century, the neo-conservatives, those who believe (secretly) that America and Christianity is destined to rule the world. On the other side, we have the normal people, who are ready for the U.S. to join the rest of the world.

While the news makes a fascinating read nowadays, the old Chinese curse is finally becoming a reality. It's not so great to live in interesting times.

Two good books that I'm going to buy when I can - Plan of Attack, by Bob Woodward, and House of Bush, House of Saud, by... don't remember. Plan of Attack is a full analysis of the White House actions leading up to the war on Iraq. It's pretty much what we've been saying in this thread, except more coherently and without the pauses for trolling. House of Bush, House of Saud is about the Bush family's dealings with the bin Laden family.

And I'm worried about Sgt. Flipper - hope he hasn't been one of the many casualities I've been hearing about on the news. I just heard recently that they're extending the term of service for everybody in the conflict... boy, that sucks. Flipper, if you're reading this, drop us a line and let us know you're okay.

I think he is posted last couple of weeks at 69/70lils.

Trouble is now if The US is chopping of any heads ,its to see if it can be grafted back on again!

http://www.indiancountry.com/?1082732751

So after a long absence I am going to post again. What do people think the significance of the Faluja withdrawal is?

Does this send a dangerouse message that in some circumstances force can work against the us army? There are certain situations where US forces cannot win?

And what of the symbolism of a former Saddam General taking charge?

"Does this send a dangerouse message that in some circumstances force can work against the us army? There are certain situations where US forces cannot win?"

Why would this be a dangerous message? The whole world knows that the U.S. is not invincible. We've known that since at least 1812.

"And what of the symbolism of a former Saddam General taking charge?"

For me? That the U.S. gave up in Fallujah.

I'm not sure what it means just yet. I think Fallujah was a situation that the U.S. could never win. The harder the troops fought, the more the people of Iraq fought against them. So it's become necessary to find a solution that isn't throwing more bodies on the pile.

"And what of the symbolism of a former Saddam General taking charge?"

I've heard that the U.S. did not look very hard to find leaders for the Iraqi coalition after we invaded. Chalabi, one of the heads of the council, is a criminal and former exile from Iraq. So Saleh being chosen to lead this Iraqi force is more of a nod to Saleh's connections with the people than a concession to Saddam's leadership.

U.S. did not look very hard to find leaders for the Iraqi coalition
Surely the whole point apart from WMD is its the Iraqis who need to choose . You would not expect Australia to choose New Zealand polititions, or USA Canadian, GB spent 30 years in NI trying to do just what is trying to be achieved in Iraq , so i am not expecting change over there that soon!

<<"And what of the symbolism of a former Saddam General taking charge?">>
To me, it's simply being realistic. Fallujah was an outpost of Hell, and withdrawal is the *only* way to end that.

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/040510/w051066.html

I just hope that Lyndie England, for all of her complicity, doesn't get hung out to dry by herself. There are a huge number of officers and civilian contractors, administrators, and members of governement (a Nuremburg courtroom full) who need to stand up in public before a judge and recieve their due. Rumsfeld is certainly one of them and I have my suspicions about George.

'Up to 90 per cent of Iraqi detainees were arrested "by mistake," according to coalition intelligence officers cited in a Red Cross report disclosed Monday'

'Abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers was widespread and routine, the report finds - contrary to U.S. President George W. Bush's contention that the mistreatment "was the wrongdoing of a few." '

'Red Cross delegates saw U.S. military intelligence officers mistreating prisoners under interrogation at Abu Ghraib'

'The 24-page document cites abuses - some "tantamount to torture" - including brutality, hooding, humiliation and threats of "imminent execution." '

Yeah, they're trying to throw the 800th battalion (the group in charge of the prisons) to the wolves - denying them Bronze Stars, which had previously been approved, accusing several members of abuse, insubordination, appearing out of uniform, etc. They're looking for a scapegoat for these crimes.