A Conversation for Great Dates in History
Shaunak - who loves to swim in chilly water Started conversation May 3, 2003
I should have contributed but heck, anyway, here's my rant. This article should be called Great Dates in the History of Western Civilisation because that's what it is. Anyway, I'll steal some time from Machine Design and try to get something about my society (civilisation) - India - it goes back about 6000 years (AFAIK).
Maolmuire Posted May 4, 2003
Hmm, in that regard, since we live in a world dominated by Western civilisation, we can I believe safely disregard say, much of Chinese history, not because it isn't important to a billion Chinese, but because in the great scheme of things it had no relevance to us in Europe. Sounds harsh? But all those dynasty changes didn't mean diddley-squat to Europe. It isn't until the rise of the Mongols that there is finally some impact on Europe. North and South America are likewise out of the picture until 1492. India is out too. Sorry, but the impact that these areas/cultures have had in forming our civilisation is negligible I believe. Africa and the Middle East had a huge impact on Europe, and how we developed our civilisation. There are quite a few dates missing there... Battle of Lepanto 7th Oct 1571, Siege of Malta 1561, Fall of Constantinople 1453. These are important dates which had a huge impact on how Western civilisation developed.
Shaunak - who loves to swim in chilly water Posted May 4, 2003
"since we live in a world dominated by Western civilisation"
Umm, you do, I don't. I don't live in a world dominated by anyone because I live in a place where many different cultures interact. If you're talking merely about politics, well, it doesn't affect me enough, to worry about. I thought this article was about civilization and culture definitely is one of the more interesting aspects of it. But hey, it seems the article isn't. Too bad.
"Sorry, but the impact that these areas/cultures have had in forming our civilisation is negligible I believe. "
I believe this is a website. The message I got (written by you) consisted of 0s and 1s, right? Well, where did your civilization get the 0? India.
Algebra? Mathematics? You got them from the Arabs who got them from India.
Negligible? The chinese had printing perfected long before Gutenberg attempted it. Too bad your culture didn't invade them earlier - would have saved Gutenberg a lot of trouble ...
Delicia - The world's acutest kitten Posted May 5, 2003
Maolmuire Posted May 6, 2003
The zero was invented thrice, thusly:
Babylon circa 300 B.C.
By the Mayans, circa 400 A.D.
and by the Indians circa 700 A.D.
It arrived (finally) in Western europe around the 12th century. Until then, the impact Indian culture had on Europe was negligible. (And we got it from the Arabs anyway!)
As for Arabic impact on Western Civilisation, maybe you missed this line
"Africa and the Middle East had a huge impact on Europe, and how we developed our civilisation."
Yes, China had printing (with movable type too!) before Europe. They also had paddle-wheel ships, earthquake detectors, gunpowder, noodles (maybe!) and lots of other groovy things long before Europe. So what? The net impact that all these Chinese discoveries had on Europe is nil. Except for the noodles.
As for not living in a world dominated by Western Civilisation, I'd say that wherever you live it's probably too late to avoid.
? Posted May 6, 2003
maolmuire, it'd be much appreciated it if you'd please share the references from whence you got what you've posted here in the guise of fact. until you can provide such, i'm afraid what you stated is mere conjecture and opinion, at best.
The Dali Llama Posted May 7, 2003
Gunpowder hasn't had a significant effect on Western civilisation? How do you figure that?
Maolmuire Posted May 7, 2003
Look it up yourself. Have you questioned anybody elses 'facts', or just mine? Try google.
Maolmuire Posted May 7, 2003
"Gunpowder hasn't had a significant effect on Western civilisation? How do you figure that?"
What can I say? Oops, mea culpa, mea culpa.
? Posted May 7, 2003
as a matter of fact, maolmuire, i do tend to challenge people's assertions; in exchange it is my fond wish to be open to new ways of understanding the world.
though the internet puts a lot of information at your fingertips neither is that data nor is it necessarily fact. for that, it continues to be important to provide published, respected sources.
you see, it is so very easy to fall into the sort of trap that the british government blundered into upon releasing an intelligence dossier the backup for which was found to be basically stuff found on the internet.
Shaunak - who loves to swim in chilly water Posted May 9, 2003
"By the Mayans, circa 400 A.D.
and by the Indians circa 700 A.D."
700 A.D. is incorrect.
In Sanskrit (the scholarly language of the Hindus), the word for the zero is "sunya", meaning "void", and is found in the Rig Veda which is variously dated between 4000 and 12,000 B.C. Western Scholars have dated it at around 1500 B.C. but the recent archaeological find of Dwarka (A city described in one of the books that came later, found submerged near the coast of Gujrat (the city)) has required a rethinking of this date. Note, some western scholars were biased in dating the Veda since according to Christian mythology, the world came into being around 3000 B.C.
Key: Complain about this post
- 1: Shaunak - who loves to swim in chilly water (May 3, 2003)
- 2: Maolmuire (May 4, 2003)
- 3: Shaunak - who loves to swim in chilly water (May 4, 2003)
- 4: Delicia - The world's acutest kitten (May 5, 2003)
- 5: Maolmuire (May 6, 2003)
- 6: ? (May 6, 2003)
- 7: The Dali Llama (May 7, 2003)
- 8: Maolmuire (May 7, 2003)
- 9: Maolmuire (May 7, 2003)
- 10: ? (May 7, 2003)
- 11: Shaunak - who loves to swim in chilly water (May 9, 2003)