A Conversation for The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Peer Review: A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 1

Bluebottle

Entry: The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989 - A87956068
Author: Bluebottle - U43530

The first in a six or seven part series.

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 2

SashaQ - happysad and 'slightly mad'

smiley - ok This will be a valuable addition to the Guide in due course, as many of the Studio Ghibli films have inspired popular culture - I don't think I've seen any of the films in this segment, but I am certainly familiar with Totoro smiley - ok

As someone who doesn't know much about this subject, I struggled a bit to get into the Entry to find out what it is about, though... Let me see if I understand the second paragraph by paraphrasing it:

Studio Ghibli was a collaboration between Miyazaki, his close friend and fellow animator Isao Takahata (1935-2018), who had worked with him since 1968, and Toshio Suzuki. Miyazaki and Suzuki met in 1979 following Miyazaki's directorial debut, The Castle of Cagliostro. This film featuring thief Lupin III1 met with great critical success but made little impact at the box office, though it has since become a cult classic. At that time Suzuki was the editor of Animage, Japan's first popular magazine dedicated to animation and manga. Miyazaki was next planning to make a film entitled Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, set in the far future. Suzuki was interested, but was unable to secure investment from any film producers. The story was serialised as a manga in Animage, to great success. This persuaded investors, particularly Yasuyoshi Tokuma, founder of Tokuma Shoten Publishing, to finance the film. It became an instant hit. With Tokuma's investment, Miyazaki, Takahata and Suzuki founded their own animation studio. Thus Studio Ghibli was born.

Is that something like it?

I'm not sure I understand the translation error, either - in Italian it means 'hot wind from the desert', but in Japanese it means something else because of being pronounced differently? Gib-lee has G as in Golf rather than G as in Giblets?

" a surprising amount of time" - how surprising? smiley - bigeyes


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 3

Bluebottle

Thanks for the read-through, I've mad some tweaks.

In Italian, 'Ghibli' is pronounced with a G like in Brothers Gibb, but in Japan the studio name is pronounced 'Ghibli' with a G like in 'Bee Gees'. In the UK, though, we tend to use the original Italian pronunciation of 'Ghibli' like Ghastly Ghostly Ghoul rather than 'Fibli' as in 'Rough'. 'Ghibli' in either pronunciation doesn't have any meaning in Japanese and as far as I am aware that doesn't change the meaning in Italian either, just is a mispronunciation.

" a surprising amount of time" - how surprising?smiley - yikes
How would you like me to measure surprise? If a Disney animated film is being translated from English into Japanese, let's say it normally takes about a month. How then does it take ten years for them to translate a film from Japanese into English?
Now me, I believe in the existence of people called 'translators' who are to be able to listen to what is being said and translate it instantly into another language. You see them in places like the UN with headphones on being able to hear in one language and translate speaking in another language simultaneously, it's amazing but they’re at the peak of the profession. A company like Disney would be able to afford people at the peak of the profession. If the UN can hire people to be able to translate speeches simultaneously, I reckon Disney could easily be able to hire translators who'd be able to give a very rudimentary, basic translation within 24 hours. Get some scriptwriters in to spice it up, get actors with voice synchronising experience and with motivation to get it done… – no, I don't see how it takes up to ten years.

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 4

Gnomon - time to move on

The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Hi BB. I've seen a couple of Studio Ghibli's films. This seems to be a good factual entry.

A little tidying:

Studio Ghibli is the most famous animation studio in Japan and have gained -->
Studio Ghibli is the most famous animation studio in Japan and has gained

These emphasise themes of peace, magic, hard work, wonder, flight, a sense of belonging to one's environment, strong elderly women and young girls.

-- This says that one of the themes is young girls. Is this what you meant? If you meant "strong young girls", then rephrase it like this:

These emphasise themes of peace, magic, hard work, wonder, flight, a sense of belonging to one's environment, and strong elderly women and young girls.

Other themes include magical castles, which may even walk or fly, travelling on important journeys by train, the threat of total or nuclear destruction.
-- since there are three themes listed, you should put "and" before the last one.

Giant robots also feature -- I'd say "Giant robots also feature in some films". I'm pretty sure there were none in Totoro.

Studio Ghibli originated following the collaboration with Miyazaki and Toshio Suzuki
-->
Studio Ghibli was formed following the collaboration between Miyazaki and Toshio Suzuki

Suzauki --> Suzuki

Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, a film set in the far future and tried -- put a comma after future to match the one after Wind

tried to interest investors, only to meet with no interest -- the repetition of "interest" makes this sound odd. You could try:

tried but failed to interest investors

In the second paragraph, you give the full title of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind three times. It would be OK to shorten it to just Nausicaä after the first time, although you can give the full title later in the entry.

The success of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind led Miyazaki and Suzuki, along with Miyazaki's close friend and fellow animator Isao Takahata (1935-2018), who had worked with Miyazaki since 1968, to found their own animation studio with Tokuma's investment.

-- there's a long gap in this between the subject "Miyazaki and Suzuki" and the verb "to found" which makes for difficult reading. You could reword it as follows:

The success of Nausicaä led Miyazaki and Suzuki to found their own animation studio, along with Miyazaki's close friend and fellow animator Isao Takahata (1935-2018), who had worked with Miyazaki since 1968, and with Tokuma's investment.

Miyzaki --> Miyazaki

which saw service by the Italian Air Force --> which saw service in the Italian Air Force

However due to a translation error caused by 'ghi' always being pronounced 'ji' in Japanese, though in Italian the word is pronounced 'gib-lee', the studio's name is pronounced 'Jib-Lee'.

This doesn't sound right. I don't know what you mean by 'ghi' always being pronounced 'ji' in Japanese, since Japanese uses a different alphabet from ours. Do you mean that the sound "gi" with a hard g does not exist in the Japanese? Your explanation of the word being pronounced "gib-lee" in Italian doesn't make much sense either because gib is normally pronounced jib in English.

You could say "In Italian, 'Ghibli' starts with a hard g, the same sound as the English word 'give'."

But you'll have to explain what you meant by the first part.

Yet it is fair to say that Miyazaki -->
Yet it is fair to say that Hayao Miyazaki
(since you mention a different Miyazaki in the previous sentence)

That's enough for the moment.

smiley - smiley G


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 5

SashaQ - happysad and 'slightly mad'

smiley - ok

Yes, 10 years is a surprisingly long time...


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 6

Bluebottle

Thanks Gnomon - I've tweaked the entry according to your comments. smiley - smiley

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 7

Gnomon - time to move on

Hi BB

That first section is much clearer now.

Yet it is fair to say that Yet it is fair to say that Hayao Miyazaki -- remove the duplicate phrase

Studio Ghibli's films were little seen outside. -->
Studio Ghibli's films were little seen outside Japan.

I don't think it is necessary to put a footnote detailing Harvey Weinstein's crimes on every mention of Miramax.

as well as distribute their upcoming film in cinemas, Princess Mononoke (1997), releasing the film in English in 1999.-->
as well as to distribute their upcoming film Princess Mononoke (1997) in cinemas, releasing it in English in 1999.

I still disagree with your description of the Bechdel Test.

You don't explain why you start your numbering of the films at 0 rather than 1.


Now for the individual films. Your biggest problem is the repetition of words or phrases, making the sentence clumsy or inelegant.

Nausicaä

all-but destroyed --> all but destroyed (this phrase occurs later on as well, in Fireflies)

Yet an aircraft carrying a surviving Warrior
-- remove the word "yet" at the start of this. You had a "yet" clause in the previous sentence making this one jar.

flying fortress flying boats -- this phrase doesn't really work because of the word "flying" in it twice. You could try fortress-like flying boats

The character of Nausicaä is named after a character in Homer's Odyssey -->
Nausicaä is named after a character in Homer's Odyssey

Her character's further adventures continued to be serialised -->
Her further adventures were serialised

listed it in 96th -->
listed it as 96th

Castle in the Sky

falls under the attack --> falls under attack

pendent --> pendant

a powerful ore that man once knew how to use to give cities the ability to fly.
-->
a powerful ore that was once used to give cities the ability to fly.

The Dola gang and the army are all after Sheeta and the crystal, which holds the key to discovering the abandoned, lost city which possess unfathomable knowledge and ultimate power.

This is too long, with two "which" clauses. You could split it with a colon:

The Dola gang and the army are all after Sheeta and the crystal: it holds the key to discovering the abandoned, lost city which possesses unfathomable knowledge and ultimate power

and note "possesses" rather than "possess".

Numerous powerful giant robots capable of flight that also destroy Air Destroyer Goliath as well as Muoro's fortress
-- remove "also"

Fox squirrels like the one seen in Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds can be seen on Laputa
Fox squirrels like the one in Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds can be seen on Laputa

the Laputian robot is based on a robot design -->
the Laputian robot is based on a design

Tokuma lacked interest -- when you say a person lacks interest, it means they are not an interesting person. That isn't what you intended to say. You could say "Tokuma was not interested"

Now you have to address the issue, what was Tokuma not interested in? He funded one of the two films and the other was funded by another investor. Was that he was not interested in funding the two films? This whole section could be better worded - you could say no investor was interested in funding both proposed films, but Studio Ghibli managed to get funding for each of the films independently and proceeded to make both at the same time.

Your footnote 5 is on the word Pass of the Bechdel Test. Is it anything to do with the Bechdel test? SHouldn't it be on the name of Mrs Yokokawa?

the film rights differ to the other Studio Ghibli films -->
the film rights differ from the other Studio Ghibli films

Totoro

Why Yasuko is in hospital is never specified - again this reflects a child's view of the world. No child understands adult medical conditions. You might like to mention this.

small, black furry soot animals -- add a comma after black

You say it was dubbed into English in 1989 but in the table it shows 1998. Which is it?

Kiki

an old, little black dress - should this be a "little, old, black dress" or are you using the phrase "little black dress" as in Coco Chanel? In that case I think it should be "an old little black dress".

The boy's name is Toboy in the Plot description and Tombo in the list of characters.

until after she does a good deed -->
until she does a good deed

Kiki also undertakes part of her journey by the symbolic train, after sheltering from the storm by following Jiji's advice of 'Don't panic!' Kiki hides in a railway wagon which takes her to the city.

I presume this is a single sentence (it's not clear because of the punctuation). It should be broken into two sections using a colon:

Kiki also undertakes part of her journey by the symbolic train: after sheltering from the storm by following Jiji's advice of 'Don't panic!', Kiki hides in a railway wagon which takes her to the city.

far from being a paragon -->
far from a paragon

the trams of San Francisco --> the cable cars of San Francisco

Despite Disney's changing 'coffee' to 'hot chocolate, when Disney released it in 1998, ultra-right wing US group Concerned Women for America announced they were boycotting the Walt Disney Company because of their 'dark agenda' that included promoting witchcraft.

-- the objection of the Concerned Women group says nothing about coffee, so there's no need to tell us that Disney changed coffee to hot chocolate (you've mentioned it in the previous sentence). Change this to:

When Disney released the film in 1998, ultra-right-wing US group Concerned Women for America announced they were boycotting the Walt Disney Company because of their 'dark agenda' that included promoting witchcraft

the number of cels completed were much lower than standard -->
the number of cels completed were much fewer than standard

smiley - smiley G


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 8

Bluebottle

Thanks again, I've made all the changes suggested.

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 9

Bluebottle

I'm still wondering whether these could go down the University route as all the entries are finished (except the 2015+ entry - the film due to be finished and released this summer is a bit up in the air at the moment and I don't think a 2015-19 entry with only one film in is enough especially when it is potentially perceived as one of the weaker films).

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 10

h2g2 Guide Editors

The University-style approach for your View Askewniverse Project worked well smiley - smiley


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 11

Bluebottle

The entries are:
A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989
A87956077 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1991 - 1994
A87956086 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1995 - 1999
A87956095 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 2000 - 2004
A87956103 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 2005 - 2010
A87956112 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 2011 - 2015

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 12

Gnomon - time to move on

Just posting these again so that there are links in Pliny:

Entry A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989
Entry A87956077 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1991 - 1994
Entry A87956086 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1995 - 1999
Entry A87956095 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 2000 - 2004
Entry A87956103 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 2005 - 2010
Entry A87956112 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 2011 - 2015


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 13

Gnomon - time to move on

Looking through these, I see that you have not changed your description of the Bechdel Test, so I do not want to do any more proofreading on them.


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 14

Bluebottle

"Looking through these, I see that you have not changed your description of the Bechdel Test, so I do not want to do any more proofreading on them."

smiley - dohYep, you are right – I thought I had changed them but I see I had only changed the 1984-1989 from the original wording of:
"summarised as whether the film involves two or more female characters who have a conversation together that does not include or mention any male characters."
To
"This can be summarised as whether the film involves two or more named female characters who have a conversation together that is not about male characters."

If it is any consolation (and frankly I can't see how it would be, to be honest) I hadn't even corrected the fact that they said 'the The Bechdel Test'.

I started writing the entries back in October, added them onto h2g2 in November with the basic skeletal structure and since February probably assumed that I'd tweaked that bit when it is clearly apparent that I didn't. It is very easy to lose track of these things as, if truth be told, I've had other things on my mind of late. But I can tweak them quickly enough.

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 15

Gnomon - time to move on

Thanks, BB. I'm much happier with that new wording.

I've only seen two or three Ghibli films and don't know much about them, but I'm happy to review the entries. I'll try and fit this in with my other projects and work.

smiley - smiley G


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 16

Gnomon - time to move on

Entry A87956068 The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

I have a lot of suggestions, BB, but I think they will be worth it.

smiley - smiley G

It can trace its origin back to when Miyazaki met Toshio Suzuki, the editor of Animage, Japan's first popular magazine dedicated to animation and manga. Suzuki met Miyazaki following Miyazaki's directorial debut

-- you say that they met in the first sentence so you don't need to say it again in full in the second sentence. Try changing the second sentence to:

They met following Miyazaki's directorial debut

This met with great critical success

-- since the preceding two sentences have "met" talking about two people getting together, you'd be better to avoid the word here. Try:

This achieved great critical success

willing to risk money on gambling with an unknown property

-- gambling is risking money, so this is repetition. Try:

willing to gamble on an unknown property

and Suzuki tried but failed to find investors -- I know this is based on something I already suggested, but I think it would be better even simpler:

--> but Suzuki failed to find investors

The success of Nausicaä led Miyazaki and Suzuki to found their own animation studio, along with Miyazaki's mentor and fellow animator Isao Takahata (1935-2018), who had worked with Miyazaki since 1968. With Tokuma's investment, Miyazaki, Suzuki and Takahata founded their own animation studio and thus Studio Ghibli was born.

-- this paragraph has two sentences. Each of them tells us that they founded their own animation studio. Reword the paragraph so that we only get told once.

I think the list of directors would be better if you sorted it by the first year in the "When" column, so that the later directors are later in the list.

though at time of original release it was not a Studio Ghibli film as Ghibli did not yet exist.
-- you could simplify this to:
though at time of original release Studio Ghibli did not yet exist.

threatened by the warring factions who wish to ensure that no other faction gets hold of it and do not care what happens to the Valley of the Wind.
-- this is slightly ambiguous. It could mean that the warring factions act together to ensure that another group of factions doesn't get the Warrior. I'd restate it as:

threatened by the warring factions. Each faction wishes to ensure that no other gets hold of the Warrior and does not care what happens to the Valley of the Wind.

You could put a link to A938883 Homer's Odyssey on the phrase Homer's Odyssey

Colonel Muska, Military spy -- lowercase m on military

Also known as Laputa: Castle in the Sky and named after the floating land in Jonathan Swift's famous Gulliver's Travels (1726), however as la puta is coincidentally Spanish for 'the whore', the name Laputa has often been removed from the title.
--misuse of however as a joining word
-->
Also known as Laputa: Castle in the Sky and named after the floating land in Jonathan Swift's famous Gulliver's Travels (1726). As la puta is coincidentally Spanish for 'the whore', however, the name Laputa has often been removed from the title.

Despite this the film is Time Out Magazine's 84th greatest animated film ever.
-- why despite this? why should the presence of Laputa in the title stop it being a good film?

his first acts on finding Laputa -->
his first act on finding Laputa

at the same time, with the argument being that only one needed to be as successful as Castle in the Sky

-- simplify:
at the same time; only one needed to be as successful as Castle in the Sky

Tokuma reluctantly funded My Neighbour Totoro, considering it the safer option. The bleak Grave of the Fireflies was financed with investment from the publisher who had released the novel the adaptation was based on. So two films that could not be thematically and emotionally further apart were made at the same time, the realistic and harrowing Grave of the Fireflies as well more magical and uplifting My Neighbour Totoro, though both dealt with the relationships between two siblings.

-- this seems to be going over the same ground a few times. Simplify it:

Tokuma reluctantly funded the magical and uplifting My Neighbour Totoro, considering it the safer option. The bleak, realistic and harrowing Grave of the Fireflies was financed with investment from the publisher who had released the novel the adaptation was based on. So two films were made at the same time that could not be thematically and emotionally further apart, though both dealt with the relationships between two siblings.

Japanese films portraying the Second World War, including but not only Grave of the Fireflies
-- you don't need to say "but not only". You can just say "including Grave of the Fireflies"

They would later appear in Spirited Away also.
-- remove the word "also".

young witch Kiki, along with her black cat Jiji, leave home to spend a year finding her own way in the world

-- it doesn't sound right to have Kiki and her cat finding _her_ own way. It could be "their own way", or you could have Kiki finding her own way, and she is accompanied by her cat:

young witch Kiki leaves home to spend a year finding her own way in the world, along with her black cat Jiji

Tombo who is building a flying bicycle, and her loss of confidence
-- split this into two sentences:

Tombo who is building a flying bicycle. Her loss of confidence

losing her powers of both flight and the ability to talk to her cat

-- she doesn't have a power of the ability to talk to her cat. Rephrase it as:
losing both her power of flight and the ability to talk to her cat

an little --> a little

an aircraft being made out of a bicycle as well as several flying brooms

--> you can't end a list with "as well as". It has to be added onto the end of a complete list.

A, B, C and D as well as E
not
A, B, C, D as well as E

Rather than using this construction, just change "as well as" to "and".

Kiki also undertakes part of her journey by the symbolic train: after sheltering from the storm by following Jiji's advice of 'Don't panic!', Kiki hides in a railway wagon which takes her to the city. She also is far from a paragon, feeling unworthy around others her own age because she only has black clothes to wear, with the exception of her red bow, rather than the colourful styles she wishes she too could wear.

This is two sentences in a row with "also" in them. You should avoid strings of sentences with every one including an "also". THey are unnecessary and make the text sound these are unconnected things just popping into your head.

I'd remove both of them, but you could get away with just removing the first one.

with the sea a combination of -->
with the sea being a combination of
or
while the sea is a combination of

Disney's 1998 dub in has since been criticised
-- should the word "in" be here?

Studio Ghibli almost became a victim of their own success -- not so much success as high standards
Studio Ghibli almost became a victim of their own high standards

became close to being --> came close to being

Japan's animation industry's standard was to pay animators a standard rate based on number of animation cels completed -- remove the repetition of "standard" as follows:

the norm in Japan's animation industry was to pay animators a standard rate based on the number of animation cels completed

as Studio Ghibli films were made to a far higher quality than other Japanese animated films of the time, the number of cels completed were much fewer than standard
-- it's not immediately obvious why a higher quality means fewer cels. At first sight you would expect fewer cels would mean lower quality. Try this:

as Studio Ghibli films were made to a far higher quality than other Japanese animated films of the time, the cels took longer to make so fewer cels were completed in any given time.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incidentally, h2g2's new in-line adds are somewhat offputting. Sasha's review above now reads:

As someone who doesn't know much about this subject, I struggled a bit to get into the Entry to find out what it is about, though... Let me see if I understand the second paragraph by paraphrasing it:

You will never have to scrub a toilet again if you try this new toilet...



A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 17

Bluebottle

I believe all the changes have been made - I certainly intended to make them all and have no disputes with any of your suggestions, however my laptop crashed halfway through. It looks like everything I'd done was saved, fortunately...

Thanks again for your hard work smiley - puff

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A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 18

SashaQ - happysad and 'slightly mad'

Very topical - the Ghibli Museum has put virtual tours on youtube because of the current situation smiley - biggrin

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd1b2TUlpmDLU7YpPu889Lg/videos

I've seen Spirited Away, so I will take a look at A87956095 in the Edited Guide Writing Workshop now smiley - ok


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 19

SashaQ - happysad and 'slightly mad'

I just had another quick look at this (I watched Howl's Moving Castle last weekend smiley - ok).

"Totoro makes cameo appearances not only in other Studio Ghibli films, but also as one of the seminal characters in one of the most influential animations of all time, in other animated films" - should be a comma after 'also'?

I'll have a look at more in the Project now smiley - ok


A87956068 - The Ultimate Studio Ghibli Film Guide: 1984 - 1989

Post 20

SashaQ - happysad and 'slightly mad'

The Project is looking very good indeed smiley - ok

It would be helpful if you could do the updating of the project banners, like you did with the View Askewniverse Project, and just check that there are enough other h2g2 links in each Entry, and then I'm sure this will soon be in the Edited Guide!

Great work smiley - ok


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