A Conversation for Flags

Waving

Post 1

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

Nice one Gnomon.

And no I'm not gonna complain about any apparent oversights
regarding Canada's Maple Leaf.

Rather, and it shouldna happened to me of all people, I felt the
omission of the Welsh dragon - while noting the Bhutan flag has
one - was both interesting and potentially distressing to the Welsh.
Yes, an argument can be made that Wales is not an independent
country and cannot therefore be recognised as having a flag, but
I wouldna wanna start that argument.

Also felt a little disappointed that the lure of the piece seemed to
promise detail of the Chinese origins. But this was quickly passed
over in favour of later European designs and uses.

And for the record, I count myself among those who feel no little
chagrin that the gay movement has usurped the rainbow flag of
the South American aboriginal league. The actual number of stripes
and colours was changed slightly but...

Altogether, considering the scope of such a topic, a pretty comprehensive
and informative entry.
smiley - ta
~jwf~


Waving

Post 2

Dmitri Gheorgheni - Freshly Vaccinated

Well, I enjoyed this. smiley - smiley

Thanks for the link about North Carolina. I didn't know about that one (but, unfortunately, am not surprised).

The amount of ignorant bombast about flags hereabouts is enough to make you avoid the subject altogether.


Waving

Post 3

Taff Agent of kaos


the unofficial way to include the welsh into the union jack is to use st. davids cross, a yellow saltaire on a black background

smiley - erm

any guesses what it would look like??

smiley - bat


Waving

Post 4

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum


Oh... an interesting factoid of interest to Brits of assorted
persuasions is the inclusion of the Union Jack in the flag
of Hawaii (courtesy Capt Cook).
smiley - bigeyes
~jwf~


Waving

Post 5

Taff Agent of kaos


thats why barrack obama is the only president born under the british flag since george washington

smiley - bat


Waving

Post 6

Gnomon - time to move on

Someday I might go to Hawaii. It sounds like a place with an interesting native culture that has been placed under a steamroller.


Waving

Post 7

Dmitri Gheorgheni - Freshly Vaccinated

Er, George Washington? Actually, at least through Andrew Jackson, all those presidents were once British subjects. Jackson was a teenager during the Revolutionary War.

Poor Hawaii. Let that be a lesson to everybody: Never allow the existence of a political entity known as the 'Missionary Party'. smiley - rolleyes Mr Clinton officially apologised along the lines of, 'We're sorry we stole your country - but we're not giving it back.'


Waving

Post 8

Gnomon - time to move on

I know the same thing happened all over America, and even all over Europe thousands of years earlier. My own country was, or may have been, successively invaded by the first hunter gatherers, the farmers, the bronze age people, the iron age people, the Anglo-Normans and the English. In each case the native culture was trampled under foot.

It just seems very recent in Hawaii. I've heard interviews with native Hawaiians, who still pronounce the name of the state with three syllables and know the meaning of the word 'Aloha' (the spirit of giving without expecting anything in return). And I've heard recordings of Hawaiian women singing in an amazing style which later gave us the Hawaiian Guitar.


Waving

Post 9

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

American punk historian Sarah Vowell (Assassin Vacation,
The Partly Cloudy Patriot, The Wordy Shipmates) has just
published her take on the whole Hawaii story from its
creation myths to Obama.
"Unfamiliar Fishes"
Highly, yay, very highly recommended. And no fear of any sort of
sentimental apologetics from Sarah.

Here she reads a bit from Chapter One.
Hard to believe she used to be a radio DJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlj2sdEelak

smiley - book
~jwf~


Waving

Post 10

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

From the 'show more' paragraphs below that video:

"With her trademark smart-alecky insights and reporting,
Vowell lights out to discover the off, emblematic, and
exceptional history of the fiftieth state, and in so doing
finds America, warts and all."
smiley - cheers
~jwf~


Waving

Post 11

Dmitri Gheorgheni - Freshly Vaccinated

Well, Hawaii was annexed in 1898, so the whole thing is relatively recent, indeed. There is some movement to revive values that got lost in assimilation, such as the teachings of the kahunas, I believe. And hula as something other than a way to impress tourists.

One thing you said puzzled me: everybody I know pronounces 'Hawaii' with three syllables. smiley - huh Do people pronounce 'Hawaii' differently in the UK? How do you pronounce it?

Since Hawaii only became a state in 1959, the older folks always used to say 'the Hawaiian Islands', which made us laugh.


Waving

Post 12

Gnomon - time to move on

My brother-in-law, who lives in Seattle, always says "Ha-wigh" rather than "Ha-wigh-ee". I assumed it was a general American pronunciation.


Waving

Post 13

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

The native pronunciation (according to Sarah Vowell)
is something like Oo-ah-why-ee-ee.

The 1898 date was the year of American Imperialism and
Manifest Destiny under MacKinley (later shot) influenced
by Teddy Roosevelt (who had been Navy Secretary and built
up a battleship fleet that needed using). In 1898 they
declared War of Spain, invaded Cuba and established Gitmo
Bay as a permanent US colony, annexed Porta Rico, Guam,
the Phillipines and Hawaii.

smiley - cheers
~jwf~


Waving

Post 14

Dmitri Gheorgheni - Freshly Vaccinated

Oh. Seattle. smiley - laugh

That is one peculiar accent they've got. (Ah've got room to tawk...smiley - winkeye)

One of my clients is a company headquartered in Seattle. The Philadelphia people in that outfit always told me, 'If you write a script, remember you have Seattle voice talent. Tell the actors what accents to use. Otherwise, everybody in history will sound like they're from Seattle.' smiley - whistle


Waving

Post 15

Gnomon - time to move on

I did, by the way, think of mentioning the Canadian Maple Leaf, but I didn't want the Entry to turn into a big list.


Waving

Post 16

Dmitri Gheorgheni - Freshly Vaccinated

Good point.

That made me think of another possible entry topic - national anthems. As a kid, I found them fascinating. (My favourite is the Netherlands national anthem, which makes me laugh even more than ours does - and is much easier on the ears.)

You've inspired me, Gnomon, on a completely different topic. I'm going to see if I can get together an entry on 'four-minute men'. (It went flags - patriotism - mindless patriotism - World War I propaganda.)


Waving

Post 17

Gnomon - time to move on

I'm working on the Holy Grail at the moment.smiley - smiley


Waving

Post 18

Dmitri Gheorgheni - Freshly Vaccinated

Good for you. Let us know if you find it. smiley - winkeye


Waving

Post 19

You can call me TC - so relieved the site is back up again

Re the Holy Grail - first thing I always think of is "The Fisher King". Worth watching if you like Terry Gilliam.


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