A Conversation for Ash Magna and Ash Parva, Shropshire, UK

Spooky

Post 1

Red (and a bit grey) Dog

Very nice entry - well done smiley - ok. Spookily there's an Ashby Parva and Ashby Magna in close proximity in Leicestershire as well, that predated the Viking occupation of the 10thC and survived amidst a large number of Norse settlements in the area. Topography must be similar.


Spooky

Post 2

LL Waz

Thankyou for the comments smiley - smiley.

An Ashby Magna and Parva - that is spooky. I'm not familiar with Leicestershire.

In the Whitchurch Tourist Info. Centre are two viking silver ingots which were found about ten miles away from Ash. The Vikings had a silvermint at Shrewsbury, next to where Viroconium used to be. So the Viking silver would have been carried to and fro along the Roman road near the village.
Apart from that I'm not aware of their influence around here but I'm strictly an amateur with all this.


Spooky

Post 3

Red (and a bit grey) Dog


It's a pleasure - I always enjoy well thought out entires that give a historical context to the subject matter.

You might want to have a look at these if you have a moment :-

Ashby Magna - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LEI/AshbyMagna.html
Ashby Parva - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LEI/AshbyParva.html

If you have a look at the location maps on either of those pages you'll see the villages straddling either side of the M1. Just at the bottom of the map is the line of the A5 running SE-NW which (roughly speaking) is a significant language divide in the UK. You can see Viking place names dominating north of the line and Anglo Saxon ones south of the line. Note all the other Parva's and Magna's in this small area. Interesting eh ?


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 4

LL Waz

I followed those links and saw the A5, and wondered if a route that straight and with that early an 'A' number might also have Roman origins. I ran a search and found that the A5 is more of Watling Street. (More spooky??) I also found this; http://www.britainexpress.com/architecture/burhs.htm which seems to be a possible explanation of how a roman road might become a boundary between Saxon and Norman. Do you think there's anything in it?

A lady told me a story this evening of how Ash Magna and Ash Parva came to be Magna and Parva. I've told it in a new thread from the entry if you're interested. I'm sure it's all true smiley - winkeye.


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 5

Red (and a bit grey) Dog


I should have mentioned that the A5 is Watling Street smiley - doh. In fact if you go to the same map and follow the A5 North West you'll see that just north of Wibtoft it intersects with the A4455. That old road is actually the Fosse Way and the intersection is known locally as "Highcross" on account of the large stone cross that used to be there (uncertain date). If you expand the map you'll see the A4455 more clearly and how straight it is.

Highcross was the site of a minor Roman fort/settlement called "Venonis" and there have been excavations all around the site for years.

I'm off to check that link you gave me smiley - ok


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 6

Red (and a bit grey) Dog


OK as far as I know the commonest Scandanavian place names in my neck of the woods is -by, -thorpe or the occasional -toft.

The -by suffix originally meant a farmstead, but many of these grew into villages, towns or even cities, taking the -by suffix with them in their names.

The -thorpe suffix originally meant a secondary settlement, that is, an additional small hamlet and land established as a sort of 'overflow' from a village as it became overpopulated.

The -toft suffix originally probably meant a single small farmstead.

Interestingly enough the combination of Scandanavian names like Ashby with Latin elements such as Magna (Greater) and Parva (Smaller) are not unusual.

There are many Parva-Magna ccombinations in Leicestershire and I've run across an interesting and full explanation of one origin for Appleby Magna-Parva in the NW of the County. They seem to indicate that there was an element of status involved in who lived in which half of the twin settlements. Check out http://www.applebymagna.org.uk/appleby_history/in_focus4_Danes&Domesday.htm for more info.

Taking an intuitive leap it may also indicate that Ash became Ash Magna and Ash Parva after the viking settlements and the recent change to Ash may be a return to the Anglo Saxon roots of the place name.


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 7

Sergeant Mushroom

smiley - blackcat

smiley - biggrin

I haven't done anything on the Vikings yet- it's really nice to know some local history. Thanks Redsmiley - catsmiley - hug


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 8

LL Waz

"I should have mentioned that the A5 is Watling Street " I'm glad you didn't. Looking it up I found there are two Roman roads over Prees Heath, not one, merging just south of Whitchurch. It ties in with something a local farmer said which I'd supposed 'til now that I'd misunderstood. The OS maps show no trace of this second road within about ten miles.

That was an interesting explanation of Magnas and Parvas. It would explain why some of them are sometimes a few miles apart. Unlike the Ashes where it's a few hundred yards. I'll check the 1888 map site again and see if it shows any differences in field sizes.

Current day Anglo Saxons are resisting the attempt to return the name to it's Saxon roots!

Hi Seargeant Indiana. A couple of Viking silver ingots were found about ten miles from Ash. They were in a field a couple of miles off the route, (more or less the 'A49' Roman road), between Chester and Shrewsbury where there was a Viking silver mint. Foul play is suspected. If they'd been on the route they might just have been dropped, but two miles off it . . .? Or maybe some viking just took a detour for a picnic.
Waz


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 9

Sergeant Mushroom

smiley - blackcat

*giggles* Cool. But I live in Leicestershiresmiley - winkeye


Spooky - it might all be down to Alfred

Post 10

LL Waz

Oh, but that's just down the Street!
Waz


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