h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I like Barogue music too. But you forgot to put Pachelbel down as one of the composers. Even though only one of his pieces (Canon [in D Minor - I think]) has become well-known he is still brilliant. I really like Pachelbel's Canon.

And what about Scarlatti?

Oh well, it's nice to know that other people out there like - or at least know about - Baroque.

What other types of classical music do people like (if they do)?

Hairy-legs

Yes - we debated where to "stop" the list for a long time ... both your "condidates" were suggested ... along with several others.

FWIW, I think you got the list about right. Not enough is known about Pachelbel to say that he was an influential, or even a good, composer; you just can't judge from the one piece (and I fear - without wanting to appear a musical snob - that the slushy recordings available of that one piece do not help his case). Likewise, Thomas Arne - another one-hit wonder - was lucky to slip under the wire! (If him, why not other British greats such as Lawes, Boyce, etc.)

I think the test of 'influence' - on succeeding generations of composers, not just on the contemporary listener - is a helpful one here. Otherwise one must include other members of the Bach family (JC and WF in particular, for bridging the gap between Baroque and classical) and, of the Italians, the outstanding Pergolesi (whose genius is all the better appreciated for knowing that he dies at the age of 24).

If I had to choose a short short-list, it would be:
England - Purcell (harmonic invention the like of which was not heard again until the 20th century);
Italy - Monteverdi (as you noted, largely responsible for the initial development of the operatic form);
France - I don't really know. Any ideas? (Lully and Couperin spring to mind, but I don't know much about them); and
Germany - JS Bach (not, indeed, a great innovator of the musical form; but his consistent emulation of 'the music of the spheres' in so many different areas - and his influence on future generations - surely establishes a claim as the greatest composer of all).

Yes - your lists come pretty close to where I was aiming...
Yes - Purcell was phenomenal ... In France, I'd go for Couperin rather than Lully ( for innovation)
...and you can give the big prize to JS Bach ...
Glad you liked the item!

I suppose Charpentier and Rameau would be French contenders too - but the fact that we are scrabbling around for a name suggests that, perhaps, there is no-one quite in this category. Either that, or we are all too francophobe/ franco-ignorant in this English-speaking forum!

Odd you should mention that .... I've just started up the next Uni. Music project - take a look at entry A505423

It would possibly be worth including Pachelbel for the simple reason that the canon, best known to most people through his work, is an important Baroque form.

On a nitpicking note, violins didn't strictly reach their technical peak in the Baroque period. Although Stradivarius is possibly the greatest of all luthiers, there have been several technical developments since that time, (which have been successfully applied to his instruments), such as the tensioned bass bar and the longer fingerboard. The real reason that the violin family came into prominence was their lack of frets, enabling them to be played in many keys without lengthy re-tuning.

It may be worth perhaps including a footnote to explain that the difference between the keys applied only to fixed intonation, pre-equal temperament instruments.

Also the clarinet was invented in around 1690, but it was technically very limited for the first fifty years or so.

By the way, I thought it was a very good article - I'm sorry to sound so picky.

Hypotheses for discussion :

Claudio Giovanni Antonio Monteverdi (1567-1643) was the father of Baroque, and his opera Orfeo (1607) can be viewed as the watershed between the Renaissance and Baroque musical periods.

Thomas Arne was not quite a one hit wonder. Comus(1738),The Judgment of Paris(1740), and Alfred(1740) were quite influential on English music for a further century. But his style was Pre-classical rather than Baroque.

English Baroque was an independent school with its roots in the works of Thomas Tallis (1510-85), and his (superb) pupil William Byrd (1543-1623)

French Baroque is adequately represented by Couperin and Rameau. Interestingly, Jean Baptiste Lully (1632/3-87) was born Giovanni Battista Lulli in Florence.

After 1720ish Handel, Rameau, and Telemann slowly moved away from Baroque to Pre-classical (polyphony to homophony) setting the stage for Haydn. J.S.Bach alone clung to polyphony throughout his life despite being scorned as old-fashioned by his contemporaries. The end of the Baroque Style could therefore be dated to his death on July 28, 1750. However, it was getting a bit whiffy long before then.

Please regard these as posted-to-be-shot-down rather than definitive statements. Answers to 'Where did Baroque come from?' and 'Where did it go?' may help put the Baroque Style in context particularly when set alongside the development of musical form from motet to cantata to sonata. Perhaps this would show Baroque to have a central role in musical history rather than the 'mutant music' label that is often thrown at it.

Yes, you're right. Thanks for the comments. Glad you liked the articcle!


Seth - great ideas for discussion! My immediate reaction is YES to all of them!

Two questions, Kes

Which piece do you think best represents the pinnacle of Baroque achievement?

What's your favorite?

Tough question .... Maybe you'll let me introduce a third category? ....

The piece which best defines the start of the Baroque era: Monteverdi's Orfeo

The pinnacle of the era: JSB's Goldberg Variations

Personal favourite: JSB's arrangement of Sleepers Wake (Wachet Auf)

We're agreed on no. 1 then.

For the others, I'm sorry but I'm a trumpeter so it has to be the Brandenburgs (esp #2)

Poin taken! So you detected my keyboard bias?

Saw your desk in the h2g2 orchestra! How many keyboards? Is Messiaen's Turangalila in the repertoire?!!

Alas no .... atm I'm trying to learn some of the "Tomb of Couperin" .. I don't get much practice time ... so it's taking ages.

Some of Couperin's stuff for keyboard is really tedious. Still, it's not bad. I like the Brandenburg no. 3 best.

Yes - I concur. Although I like listening to Brandenburg 5 best, I like playing in Brandenburg 3 most ... probably because the Continuo part is within my abilities!

Fabulous job! I know it's been a long time since the article was posted, but I have just recently discovered this site. A few thoughts on:

SHORT LIST: ummm... I don't think I can make a short list from the baroque...
PINNACLE WORK: though it wasn't written to be heard at one sitting, nor was it written as a unit, I'd have to go with J. S. Bach's "Art of the Fugue" owing to it's exploration of the form and it's use as an example of the joys of the much needed new tempered tuning.
FAVORITE PIECE: Let's see, it's Monday, so it must be the Nero/Poppea duet from Monteverdi's "l'Incoronazione di Poppea." Tomorrow is Tuesday, so it will be Corelli's "Six Concerto Grossi" ...

The French:
Rameau should definitely be a prime French entry, but perhaps most importantly for his treatise on theory/orchestration-Traité de l'harmonie. And regarded as perhaps the crown prince of the French Baroque is Marc-Antoine Charpentier.

Ponderances:
Two surprising things one discovers when studying Baroque music is that neither Bach nor Vivaldi (arguably two of the most familiar baroque composers today) were widely known or appreciated in their own time nor for long years following their deaths. It took Mendelssohn and Brahms to bring due notice to Bach. I do not know exactly when Vivaldi came to our attention, but it was well into the 20th century. One other note on the link between Bach and Vivaldi: surprisingly enough, Bach learned music transcription technique by copying Vivaldi scores.

Transitions:
Though Peri did get in the first written and codified "single-theme" opera (which is actually THE defining genre of the period-that genre used as a benchmark), it is Monteverdi, the Florentine Camerata and the venue of San Marco (with the Gabrielis) that are the major forces behind the change from the Renaissance. Monteverdi should be thought of as the bridge into the Baroque as Beethoven is the bridge into the Romantic.

String Theory:
Corelli is the man. Until he gave the strings a solo voice, the violin family was mostly relegated to filler status with the winds being the darlings. Corelli switched the roles, making the strings the body of the orchestra—as we know it today. He is, as far as I know, the only composer of the Patronage eras to compose SOLELY for one instrument family. He did not write any vocal works, flute (recorder) or keyboard sonatas, not even an organ toccata.

The basso continuo usually took two players (unless the instrument was a pipe organ): one on a chordal instrument (usually a keyboard or a multi-stringed instrument such as a therobo or arch-lute) and one melodic such as a bassoon or bass viol to play the bass line. So it would take 4 players to do a TRIO for two recorders and basso continuo. No wonder we musicians can't count...

The Oratorio came about as an answer for a few different issues: one was the need for staged entertainment during High Lent, a second was a growing disdain from the clergy toward the trappings of the opera/theatre being used to treat sacred subjects, and also to satisfy the growing need for affordable entertainment as the merchant class became an increasing power in society—chamber music and opera were primarily a perk of the nobility.

Finally, I really loved the article. You did an amazing job considering the breadth of the subject matter and the need to keep it to a reasonable length! I wish I had found this site before I began my 5 years of study on the subject.


Peace, and please forgive the wordiness... but I LOVE this subject.

Welcome - and thanks for your kind observations. Yes, 'twas almost impossible to keep it "short" and get everything in. Inevitably, notable composers were left out.

I agree about Corelli - THE string man!

Actually, I concur with all your observations. Thanks again.