A Conversation for Doctor Who Enemies: Daleks

The Borg and the Daleks

Post 1

Psybro

One thing I remember reading in Doctor Who Magazine that was interesting was that the Daleks and the Borg are successful for more or less the same reason. They are both soulless creatures obsessed with doing nothing other than taking over the Universe.

For most people like me who are only casual viewers of Star Trek, the Borg are the most exciting race because they are true villains. The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians etc. can all do profoundly naughty things, but at the end of the day they are still redeemable, they still have souls. The Borg, however, are not inhibited by this, with the exception of the ones that became independent. But they're on exception to the rule.

Why did I bother post this again? Oh, never mind.


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 2

docsharp

Daleks started out humanoid, so they would have a soul. Trouble is they went out into space and were twisted out of all recognition, so you wouldn't think they had a soul. I know some businessmen a bit like that, but you've gotta love 'em...hey, after all they built the Empire State Building during a recession, and the hoover dam.

The Borg are just part of a collective, servants to the machine, which machine or collective, take yer pick there are loads of 'em. The Matrix is in a similar vein.

They're telling us the same old story. Just in different wayssmiley - winkeye


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 3

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

~*~Daleks started out humanoid, so they would have a soul. Trouble is they went out into space and were twisted out of all recognition, so you wouldn't think they had a soul.~*~

So did the Borg.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 4

docsharp

Yeh and neither are irretrievable, just look at 7 of 9smiley - cool


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 5

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

7's personality was overwhelmed and suppressed by the hive mind. Like all Borg, she became a mindless automaton. On the other hand, the Daleks are consciously aware of what they do, and they do it deliberately.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 6

docsharp

But Ulimately the Daleks are led to embrace humanity, OK their intent isn't as humanitarian but Dalek Sec became a bit more human in his thinking. Dalek Khan did that emergency temporal shift so it didn't look so good to all of 'em.
Also that dalek that was exposed to sunlight after meeting Rose, saw what it had become and destroyed itself.


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 7

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

Dalek Sec only came to embrace humanity /after/ his DNA was altered with that of a human; he wasn't really a Dalek anymore, and said so himself. He became a "Dalek-Human", or "Human-Dalek", I don't remember exactly which term he used.

And as for Rose's Dalek.... The implication was that he mutated /because/ of the human DNA that he absorbed from Rose to escape. e.g. "I have been contaminated!"

AND The Doctor /also/ said "You're not even that", where "that" refers to being a Dalek.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 8

docsharp

Dalek Sec still had a basic Dalek quality though... He said "all humans will become like me" or is that a line from Loqutus of Borg.

The Doctor would know whether a Dalek was a real Dalek or not, having had so much experience of them, makes you wonder was Davros once a friend of his??? Not so far as it'll tell you in a book I suppose, maybe before records began, I've just got a feeling and sometimes it's good to "Trust your feelings" eh?


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 9

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

~*~Dalek Sec still had a basic Dalek quality though... He said "all humans will become like me" or is that a line from Loqutus of Borg.~*~

I think that was Locutus. But I don't have a way to be sure.

~*~makes you wonder was Davros once a friend of his???~*~

No.....

The Doctor meets Davros for the first time in his 4th incarnation, when he's sent back in time to stop the Daleks from being created.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 10

docsharp

Stop the Daleks being created, what a dumb plan, we'd have no empire state building then!
A book can only tell you the version of the truth that the Author see's fit. Perhaps Davros was a friend of another renegade timelord then, or maybe he was one, but didn't realise it?


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 11

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

~*~Stop the Daleks being created, what a dumb plan, we'd have no empire state building then!~*~

They only infiltrated it's construction after it was already underway.

~*~A book can only tell you the version of the truth that the Author see's fit. Perhaps Davros was a friend of another renegade timelord then, or maybe he was one, but didn't realise it?~*~

It's not a book, it's one of the T.V. Stories; I think it's called Genesis of the Daleks.

And no, Davros was not a Time Lord. Here's what happened:

The Time Lord's sent the Doctor back in time to stop the creation of the Daleks because they feared the Daleks may one day become powerful enough to threaten the Time Lords themselves. (Evidently they were right.) So the Doctor went to the planet Skaro at thus and such a time and found that it was in the grip of nuclear warfare between two factions; the Kaleds and someone else. (You'll notice that "Kaled" is an anagram for "Dalek.") Davros was on the side of the Kaleds. The radiation had mutated some or all of them into these more or less helpless blobs of goo. Davros took the mutated Kaleds and expiremented on them, making the mutation even worse. He eradicated all of their emotions except for Hate and then built them this sort of battle armor, making each one a tank unto himself, intending for them to be a powerful weapon against their enemies. These are the Daleks we know and love today. When they got off of Skaro they embarked on a quest for galactic/universal purity; rather like the Nazis really.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 12

docsharp

Thanks for the info, I love a bit of Brain food now and then.

So you recon that the Dalek's are based on the Nazi's do you? Bit recent isn't it.

Think a bit further back in time of another group of people that went around destroying people who didn't share their philosophy on life, the clues are there.

Da lek
Dav ross
it's down there in your subconcious or your id.
David, King David, at a guess.

Started out as a good idea but went out into Space and got twisted out of all recognition. (Space-Time continuum stuff, substitute one for the other), i.e. over time what seemed like a good idea to start with turned out pretty bad.

This is not supposed to be anti semetic i.e. the Di Lithium crystals should be able to cope with it.

Lithium is element No. 3, Di Lithium is the number of points on the star of David.


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 13

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

~*~So you recon that the Dalek's are based on the Nazi's do you? Bit recent isn't it.~*~

Well I didn't say that they were based on the Nazis, just that the two shared parallels. Although now that you mention it it seems likely that they were.

~*~Think a bit further back in time of another group of people that went around destroying people who didn't share their philosophy on life...... Started out as a good idea but went out into Space and got twisted out of all recognition.~*~

Good idea? How are genocide, and genetic and racial purity remotely like good ideas?

Who's King David?

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 14

docsharp

King David was the King of the Jews.

And if you don't take it literally it was a good idea.


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 15

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

No it wasn't. Literally or not, it's still promoting racism and lack of diversity. Racism stifles free society, and without diversity species die.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 16

docsharp

I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing here, but the idea of Racism is not mentioned, in fact if it's the Bible we're talking about it is positively dismissed as not correct, Songs of Solomon I think.
Selecting a partner who has the same basic intrests as you is a good idea, or it's more likely for everything to be happier in the garden if and when you get there.

And that isn't racist, it's a fact, remember that bit about the Family of Blood, that dealt with the idea that we are talking about. Little people with big ideas obsessed with their own importance wanting to keep the Blood lines pure, isn't that the sub plot?

As for diversity being vital to survival, why not try bestiality then?
That is definately not a good plan, even the American Indians had that one sussed.
The idea of Racism is an easy to reach extreme, what I've just mentioned is another, and in this world people do both. Incidentally I hear AIDS started cause of bestiality. Funny everyone pointed their fingers at homosexuals and drug addicts, or not so funny realy, I think the truth was considered too perverse. Or maybe the people that run the media are realy homophobes at heart?

Anyway can we get back to the subject.....

If there are some similarities between the Borg and Daleks, there are also similarities between the Borg and Cybermen. What do you recon?



The Borg and the Daleks

Post 17

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

~*~I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing here~*~

Perhaps not.

~*~Selecting a partner who has the same basic intrests as you is a good idea~*~

True.

~*~As for diversity being vital to survival, why not try bestiality then? That is definately not a good plan,~*~

"If it harm none, do as you will."

~*~even the American Indians had that one sussed.~*~

What do you mean "even the"?

~*~Incidentally I hear AIDS started cause of bestiality.~*~

Heard from whom?

~*~Funny everyone pointed their fingers at homosexuals and drug addicts, or not so funny realy, I think the truth was considered too perverse.~*~

Funny you're pointing your finger at bestials without apparent evidence.

~*~Or maybe the people that run the media are really homophobes at heart?~*~

Probably are.

~*~Anyway can we get back to the subject.....~*~

Where's the fun in that?

~*~If there are some similarities between the Borg and Daleks, there are also similarities between the Borg and Cybermen. What do you reckon?~*~

Far more so, certainly.

smiley - pirate


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 18

docsharp

I had a hell of a night last night about this one, it seems that as soon as you say don't do something, people want to try it.

Do you remember that Greek story about the King of Crete who's wife was into Bestiality so he got Deadalus to rig up a machine to help his wife do it with a Bull. That's how the Minatour came about and Deadalus ended up locked in the Labrynth with Iccarus and the Minataur.
One of the North American Indian leaders said that relgion is fine so long as it keeps man from bestiality. Maybe taken out of context that's wrong, and maybe that's why the red skins got theirs, for a time.

If we don't mention it, people don't think about it, that's the best way of preventing it. That'd be one way but then there is always curiosity isn't there. What happens if I do that?

As you say, if it harms no one then why point the finger. I agree.

I heard about the AIDs thing a long time ago, I can't remember where, but it seemed to make more sense than saying it was down to homosexuality. Made more sense is a way of saying it fitted in better with my own idea of morality, I suppose.

Morality? is that the problem?smiley - erm


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 19

docsharp

Oh forgot to say that Deadalus was put in the Labrynth because he couldn't do something else that the king wanted doing. Maybe it was Alchemy don't know but it was probably something that wouldn't be good for the King in the long run.


The Borg and the Daleks

Post 20

Mr. X ---> "Calm down, the world is not ending. Everything will be just fine. Everyone always thinks the world's gonna' end during their lifetime, but the truth is: None of us are that cool or interesting. So get over it."

"red skins"?

Indian tribes would be strongly opposed to bestiality I think, because it's like..... defiling nature, for lack of a better phrase.

~*~Do you remember that Greek story...~*~

No; although I did know about the Minotaur.

~*~Oh forgot to say that Deadalus was put in the Labrynth because he couldn't do something else that the king wanted doing. Maybe it was Alchemy don't know but it was probably something that wouldn't be good for the King in the long run.~*~

Couldn't have been Alchemy. That didn't exist until the Renaissance.

~*~As you say, if it harms no one then why point the finger. I agree.~*~

So stop pointing.

~*~I heard about the AIDs thing a long time ago, I can't remember where, but it seemed to make more sense than saying it was down to homosexuality. Made more sense is a way of saying it fitted in better with my own idea of morality, I suppose.~*~

Makes a whole lot more sense to say that it was a random genetic mutation of a pre-existing virus; possibly existing for thousands or millions of years before humanity was ever aware of it.

~*~Morality? Is that the problem?~*~

I'd say imposing your own moralities is the problem.

smiley - pirate


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The Borg and the Daleks

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