A Conversation for Kent State University, Ohio, USA
Kubulai Started conversation Jun 28, 2000
Classes were cancelled that day there was a curfew in effect and no one was" just walking to class".
there was no excuse for opening fire on students but no one there was entirely innocent. I'll try and track down the article from the NYT at the time and put the url here.
My wife was taught by someone who was there at the time (student) the media coverage was substantially biased at the time and has only become more so as the popular belief has become touted as fact.
Kubulai Posted Jun 28, 2000
before I get lynched http://www.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/LEWIHEN.htm is an interesting site which states that one of the sudents was walking to class. so I may be wrong about classes being cancelled it's an interesting site, not sure how accurate of course but it appears well researched (still looking though ~grin~)
Ashley Posted Jun 28, 2000
I was just wondering about the 'student walking to class' point.
Could it be that some students weren't aware of the cancellations and were making their way as normal?
Whichever way, I'll update the entry.
Speak to you soon.
evilwombat Posted Jun 28, 2000
No one was innocent!!!! So those unarmed students brought the bullets on themselves?
Kubulai Posted Jun 28, 2000
I'm not defending the shooting. it was stupid if not criminal but I was saying that the students knew they weren't supposed to be there and with emotions running as high as they were at the time they were not entirely innocent in their actions.
I didn't recheck my facts before posting so I can't quote the site where I found the initial report I was referring to but it does seem that a lot of revisionism has gone on since the shooting and it is not as cut and dried as many people would like you to believe.
as for changing the article about classes I would check to make sure I'm right first.
Most of the students were there to cause trouble and had already burned down one building the previous night. All but one of those killed were known activists. However they didn't deserve to die for making a protest.
my post was more to get the people who read the initial article to look into it before assuming anything
Wolfman, Zaphodista :X (soon to be Zarquon again, or maybe not) Posted Jun 28, 2000
I'm going to begin college in August at Kent State where I will major in history. It will be a great opportunity for me to study history at the place where one of modern history's most famous tragedies occured. I was going to write an article about this myself once I moved to Kent, but you beat me to it. Still, I will think of some way to expand on this, because it has so many connections with all the burning issues of the time. Obviously I am too young to remember it as I was born in October 1981 but as a future historian and a sociology buff, it is very interesting. Tragic of course, but also interesting. Good article. Simple but informative.
Evan Foo Posted Jun 29, 2000
You are correct. They wern't walking to class, they were walking home from class. Regardless.
I am currently a student at Kent, so I do know a bit about this. While the media was biased, I pointed that out in my writeup. Even so, the death of these students was unnessary. It was a protest, so they were not entirely without fault, but no one deserves what happened there. Along with the 4 dead, there were approx. 11 wounded, including one man who never walked again.
evilwombat Posted Jun 29, 2000
When you say something like "the students knew they weren't supposed to be there" it makes me wonder if you understand some basic freedoms the US constitution is supposed ensure. Freedom of assembly. Freedom of speech. Shooting a bunch of loud, unruly, unarmed protesters from 100 yards away is what is not supposed to happen. Mass protests are supposed to be able to happen in the US when people are upset, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. And regardless of whether the victims were student protesters or students walking to or from class, they still did not deserve to be murdered by the state.
Kubulai Posted Jun 29, 2000
I'm not going to repeat myself(you can read my earlier posts about my opinions of the shooting) I will add that I don't think carrying railroad spikes is exactly unarmed (those shot may not have been but others were,) burning buildings is not peaceful protest and the young men doing the shooting were national guard( I don't know what percentage would have had real combat experience (perhaps too few and perhaps too many) my point is they were obviously ill prepared to be placed in the situation that they were in and overreacted in a big way. what may have happened had they not is mere speculation. but the mob had already demonstrated their hatred for all things military.
you are correct I am not entirely familiar with US constitutional law but there is a point where mass protest becomes riot and at that point the military will take over. that point had not been reached legally at the time of the shootings, but in the heat of the moment many people thought that it had and that martial law had been declared
I agree entirely with the previous post. and withdraw any remarks that may be incorrect about why students were there.
I directed readers to a site that appears to be well researched and informative. and encourage others who are interested to look into the matter with an open mind. rather than making assumptions based on 30 years of propaganda
Camcheerldr Posted Jun 30, 2000
I have many things to say I'm not sure where to start....Oh yes ok, My sophomore year English teacher was twenty five feet from the shooting site she watched these students be Murdered because that is what happened. Although the national guard may be a lil in-experienced they are not too far from any military unit in the U.S. I myself will be joining the National Guard in the fall coming up. I have been told of what I should ecpect the training the weapons and everything else is similar to that of the regular Army. We however do not commit ourselves to combat unless absolutely Necesary...Back to my point....I never really took a likeing to my teacher, but I do know she said that what was going was no wheres near as rioty as people would like for the general public to perceive. She says students were leaving class and just plain walking around like they always do...Yes some were protesting and protesting BIG, but they were not at any time threatening the lives of others....One ore thing I don not want this to be thought of as adding to the argument I was on'y trying to state what I have been informed of.
Kubulai Posted Jun 30, 2000
Most of my info came from my wife who was in a similar situation to you, her teacher was present at the time and she is the one that said some were carrying railroad spikes.
I think the issue is unclear. and debate is good. somethng like this needs to be debated so that people are aware of all sides before forming an opinion.
Kubulai Posted Jun 30, 2000
found a couple more interesting sites
is apparently written by a constitutional Law professor (Barclay McMillen) who was working at Kent state and present throughout the demonstrations.
an alternative view can be found at http://alancanfora.com/ Alan Canfora was a victim of the shooting
Key: Complain about this post
- 1: Kubulai (Jun 28, 2000)
- 2: Kubulai (Jun 28, 2000)
- 3: Ashley (Jun 28, 2000)
- 4: evilwombat (Jun 28, 2000)
- 5: Kubulai (Jun 28, 2000)
- 6: Wolfman, Zaphodista :X (soon to be Zarquon again, or maybe not) (Jun 28, 2000)
- 7: Evan Foo (Jun 29, 2000)
- 8: evilwombat (Jun 29, 2000)
- 9: Kubulai (Jun 29, 2000)
- 10: Camcheerldr (Jun 30, 2000)
- 11: Kubulai (Jun 30, 2000)
- 12: Kubulai (Jun 30, 2000)
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