h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well... there are some Athenians (and Greeks in general, or Hellenes, as it should be) who think of the Earl as a thief, and there are (the majority) those who don't, and who treat him as a person caring for the preservation of history.
The case is that the marbles were bought from the Turks, because then Greece (or Hellas) was enslaved to the Ottoman empire. So it's not exactly whether the transaction was legal or not, it's more about someone taking over a territory and selling out artifacts in it. Is it ethical? Is it not? Everyone is entitled to their opinion for sure. Therefore the discussion.

Anyway, about preservation... there is the Acropolis museum, which is constantly being filled with the original sculptures and Parthenon parts, while these are replaced with accurate copies. That accounts for air pollution. And the marbles getting cleaned during the 1930's I think (because they were too yellow, so rubbing off a part of the surface was considered necessary) isn't that much of a preservation...

Friendly, TZOTZIOY.

I've never heard that opinion before, I guess I always assumed. the Greeks thought of it as theft. I watched a documentary on the subject a couple or three years ago and it seemed that the marbles were removed with dynamite (some at least) the British museum were apparently willing to return them as long as a new polution free museum was built for them, ~shrug~ Not sure how I stand now I've heard a different side. do you think they should be returned with no strings attached or held in "safe keeping" .

About safe keeping, like I already said, there is the Acropolis museum.

Sorry, missed that, how long has it been there?
only the show I saw they were talking about a new museum is that it?

The museum exists at least since I went on a school excursion in 1985. What you heard is about the possibility of building a new, larger museum (or so I've heard). Pity you didn't visit the existing one.

Never visited Greece at all (or much of the rest of europe come to that) now the opportunity is less like to arise.
I was just curious. As far as I can see it should be up to the greeks to decide how to look after their national heritage, not the British

Let me contribute a couple of points to your discussion.

Firstly, apart from the existing Acropolis museum, which is no doubt rather small, there is a new one being built right now. The late Melina Merkouri (former Minister of Culture) fought eagerly for the return of the "Parthenon Marbles" to Greece and after her death a Fund was set up to that effect. Most of the money in that fund is being used for the new museum.

Secondly, to my mind, the problem with the biggest problem with the British Museum returning the "Parthenon Marbles" is that it would set a very serious precedent. I know you said that you haven't travelled much in Europe so the chances are that you have not visited the British Museum. But, if you have visited the British Museum, then you would know that the amount of artifacts in it that are really British is really small. Last time I was there where about 4 or 5 rooms with British stuff (mainly Celtic artifacts and a collection of clocks). The museum is full of Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Sumerian, Phoenician, Indian, etc. artifacts, so if they return the "Parthenon Marbles" back to Greece then how is going to stop every other nation in the world claiming back their heritage?!!! If that was to happen the poor "British" Museum is going to be empty!

Lastly, to go back to the "preservation" argument, the marbles were not just a bit "too yellow" for the British liking but they had colours on them, which was decided that it was not the proper thing to have, so they actually used chemicals and took everything out, so that the marbles were "pure white". You see the prevailing idea at the point (about Ancient Greek Sculpture) did not include the possibility of the use of colour to enhance the physical characteristics of the depicted God/person/animal. In other words the "preservation" efforts undertaken by the British Museum resulted in major destruction of the artifacts! Of course that is not something that the English press has widely publishised.

Regards,
Ariadni

~grin~ been to the british musem I was born in London spent my life there until I moved to the US 2 years ago,. I meant europe as in continental europe which UK doesn't really count.
You are right about setting precedents ~shrug~, my view, so what, if the BM can't defend its ownership of artifacts maybe they should be returned. Of course if they were bought in good faith the problem arises of compensation but if you buy a stolen car you aren't compensated so why should artifacts be different?
most of the places that want their stuff back will porbably look after them as well as the BM does (if not better).

Not a biggie for me just conversing.

Hi!
I've just wanted to say that the "Parthenon marbles" are the best ancient Greek artifacts that I have ever seen. It's a pity that they are not in Greece and their visitors are not able to see the sunshine that gave to the ancients the inspiration to create such a civilization.
The marbles were removed from the temple body in a violent and inproper way and this is well known. This happened in the times that Greece was not existing as a free country - it was ruled from the Turkish Empire.
I understand that a Greek artifact can be presented in a museum in a foreign country. And there are many Greek masterpieces all around the world. The problem is that these particular marbles belong to the Parthenon temple which stands there chopped right now.
It's not proper to use arguments of the style "are Greeks able to look after them?" UK is not that far from Continental Europe and Greece. You should know that Greece is a modern country rapidly improving no matter the difficulties coming from its geopolitical place.

That's all,

Cheers!