A Conversation for Atheism

Something Better

Post 61

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

There are no perfect solutions. Environmentalism, for instance... how can it be a bad thing? It can be when it gets overly enthusiastic. Consider recycling. For every 100 tons of paper that is recycled, you produce 40 tons of toxic waste. Three of the ten worst polluters are recycling plants. Is that how we're going to save the earth?

Fanaticism is bad in every single element, not just religion, It leads us to irrational actions that cause more harm than good.

"Everything in moderation, including moderation."


Something Better

Post 62

Neugen Amoeba

Perfecion is a man-made idea. Nature has no concept of perfection. It just selects, through the course of genetartions the set (I emphasize set) of characteristics that work the best in a given environment. These characterisctics may be improved, but according to the environment they may not need to because they still propagate. Things that don't work well, don't propagate and die out. When the environment changes, so do the criteria for what is optimum.......

People seeking ideal solutions, the so called 'idealists' (I like logical names) I find are either very frustrated or mad. You're right Colonel, 'the middle way' is the way to go.

....Picking up alms bowl and heading off to beg for food....


Something Better

Post 63

Tschörmen (german) -|-04.04.02

But that utterly is the next belief system to go for a burton. What is theee middle way? New labour? 80ies music? Frank Sinatra (well, that would be my way at least smiley - smiley)

This and the buisnessforum X have given me a lot to think about. One of the problems I got through reading them is, that I feel to logic about certain things, e.g. everything depends on going via the mind. What about feelings? Seems to me they are very difficult to transmit via internet, so we stick to good old logic and go on biccering.

I do not believe in god. But what do I feel about it? Which emotions do have effect, evan if I do not see reason enough for the existance of the supernatural (logiclly it is something above the natural, so what do I experience?)

By the way. I´ve opened up a virtual pub.http://www.h2g2.com/A392339. I´m thinking of doing a pubquiz, but I guess that would be to much work, so if anybody else would volunteer?


Something Better

Post 64

Martin Harper

*sigh* - I'm not getting through here, am I? Ok - last try, then I give up... smiley - smiley
The wiring in your eye can be improved. Where it to be improved, the resulting human would have an evolutionary edge in the current environment, owing to being able to see better.
The reason it is not improved is not "they do not need to because they still propagate". The reason is that there is no evolutionary path through to the better (in the current environment, etc, etc) wiring.
No amount of evolution from here on will let us grow an extra pair of arms. Even if the environment changed such that having six arms gave you *massive* evolutionary advantages.
Not only does evolution not get you the optimum solution, in certain circumstances it can get you arbitrarily bad solutions, which are nonetheless evolutionarily stable. This is the main reason that evolved software is a long way from being even remotely mainstream.

Oh, and you don't need people to have "perfect" solutions. Bubbles are the classic examples - they are perfect solutions to the problem of finding a minimum spanning surface. Nature, not being intelligent, has no concept of anything, but it can certainly produce perfection when it feels like it.


Something Better

Post 65

Neugen Amoeba

MRD you are getting through. I understand what you mean, it's simply that I don't agree with you.

As for the middle way, it is the way that considers all things transient, and holding on to absolutes as leading to sorrow. Happy little path, ain't it?!


Something Better

Post 66

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Don't worry Red, you've got my vote. I've always considered evolution just as arbitrary and haphazard as anything else in this world. Anyone who believes otherwise should watch a butterfly or bat flail at the sky for a bit, then watch a mudskipper slap itself on the shore, then top it off with a visit to the penguin tank at the nearest sea life park. Beneficial evolution, my ass... tell that to the frizzed out baby penguin freezing on mama's feet and eating daddy's vomit.

And look at that... all that to be said about the nonsense of evolution, and not one oblique reference to the platypus. smiley - tongueout


Something Better

Post 67

Martin Harper

righto - sorry for flogging the horse to death... smiley - smiley


CREATOR

Post 68

Franklin4YAHWEH

Man created gods. Yahweh is not a god and was not created. Order the free books," Who Do You Worship?"
and "Who Is Lord God? Who is Baal?" online at: http://www.yahweh.com/pages/freebook/pg1.shtml/ . Mankind
was created by Yahweh. Are we not called creatures, a word derived from create? Yahweh is not a creature.
He is the Creator. He wants you to know Him by His only Name.


CREATOR

Post 69

Tschörmen (german) -|-04.04.02

Well, I haven´t been called creature yet; they call you resurcher on h2g2, word derived from search - and I am not going to tell you my name! (I´ll tell you: I have got a second name - does YAHWEH?smiley - smiley

I opt in calling your "YAHWEH" "YHWH" for a start. No knowing which letters them hebrews definitly used as vowels. Before we call him somthing of a sort anyway, you have to define what something created is. Well, and then we´ve got to sort out what linguistic problems there are to solve. What if YHWH gets the idea of changing his name? Is there any PROOF your not up to an imposter? I´ve known quite a few people who believe in that "???", but to such different effect in their lives, that you cannot get passed the impression that they only believe in their Idea of "???" or YHWH or Allah or what not.

What is a synonym for God? - Me. That´s what most people believe.

Hey, I might go and change my reserchers name into YHWH (formerly Engländer (landlord of Ye olde Hoopoe)) will anybody know me by my only name? What are names anyway? Hey, Franklin ? Are you Franklin Roosevelt? How come you´ve got a name? What would the creator call you? And what is the 4 YAHWEH for? Part of a name the creator gave you?

I believe good arguments are wasted on you. You are not able to believe anything I say, as you only believe what you want about YEHOVA.
smiley - smiley I believe in YODA. At least he´s on telly now and then...smiley - smiley


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