A Conversation for Dyson Spheres

Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 1

Hoovooloo


"The Xbox game Halo is also set inside a Dyson shell"

False.

Laughably so, in fact. Has ANYONE who contributed to this or read it in Peer Review *played* Halo? Even SEEN it? Several of the levels on Halo are set at night. Can anyone who contributed to this entry explain how it can be night on a Dyson shell?

Halo is set on an analogous but much MUCH smaller structure - an "Orbital".

A Dyson sphere has a radius of approximately 100 million miles, as does a Niven-style Ringworld, and it entirely encircles a star. It is ENORMOUS, as this entry points out.

The object which is the setting for Halo (and Halo 2, come to that) is a far smaller structure which even someone not paying much attention can readily note is NOT encircling anything.

An Orbital addresses one of the most irritating problems of the Ringworld - that it's noon all the time, everywhere, unless you hang bloody great sunshades in a closer orbit to the primary to simulate night by eclipsing the sun regularly.

Instead of building a ring right round the sun, you build a smallish (million mile diameter or so) ring, and put that ring in orbit around a star. You tilt the ring slightly off the ecliptic then spin it once every 24 hours. If you've done your sums correctly you get earth-normal "gravity" on the inner surface and a near normal day/night cycle. You get seasons by varying the tilt to the ecliptic. There's nothing in the centre of the ring at all, and you can see the stars at night. It doesn't take much material to make one, and you can put several in the same orbit in each other's Trojan points. Lovely. I want to live on one.

Sadly, I can't. But I can read about them in "Consider Phlebas" and "Look to Windward" by Iain M. Banks, or I can play Halo. Which I do. A lot.

SoRB


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 2

Hoovooloo


As is so often the case, better, more accurate information on this subject can be found at Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_Orbital

SoRB


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 3

the_jon_m - bluesman of the parish

the Halo point was added from a suggestion in PR. Personally, I wouldn't pay microsoft that kinda cash for a wannabe playstation.

with respect to the halo programmers, how much thought about the physics of Dyson shells do you really think went inot making the game. Do you think that good physics stood a chance against good / varied gameplay when they were planning the game ? In the 20 odd years I've been playing games, it never has!


besides, editoral feedback is the place for these kind of comments.



Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 4

Sir Ernest Bagnose KFC

Steady on, old chap! There's no need to be rude, don't ye know. The title of this conversation is a bit much for what is reporting a single minor error in the piece.


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 5

Hoovooloo


"the Halo point was added from a suggestion in PR."

Presumably, as I say, from someone who has either never played the game, and come to that never seen it being played, or didn't understand what they were looking at. It's a shame it was incorporated into the entry so uncritically, without any checking to see if it was accurate or not, don't you think?

"Personally, I wouldn't pay microsoft that kinda cash for a wannabe playstation."

smiley - huh Um... and the relevance of that comment is?

"with respect to the halo programmers, how much thought about the physics of Dyson shells do you really think went inot making the game."

Well, for starters, the programmers of Halo had a lot more concern for accuracy than the people who were responsible for this entry. For instance, they probably had no thought at all for the physics of Dyson spheres, given that, as I've pointed out, NO DYSON SPHERE OR ANYTHING REMOTELY THAT LARGE APPEARS ANYWHERE IN EITHER GAME.

"Do you think that good physics stood a chance against good / varied gameplay when they were planning the game ?"

In fact, the extremely accurate depiction of the environment of an Orbital structure is one of the most impressive parts of the game. Anyone who has actually played the game and paid attention (hint: don't ask anyone who contributed to this entry) will tell you that there is an ENORMOUS amount of in game background detail and atmosphere unrelated to the actual gameplay mechanics that lend an immersive quality very rare in videogames. Not for nothing is the first game the XBox's "killer game" - the game many people bought the console to be able to play.

"besides, editoral feedback is the place for these kind of comments."

I saw a button marked "Comment on this entry" or something similar. If clicking on that starts a conversation in what you say is the wrong place, then this website's interface is broken. That is not my problem.

I sense someone annoyed that their sloppiness has been called hitting back. Don't bother.

SoRB


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 6

Sir Ernest Bagnose KFC

I fear that this SoRB is more interested in this computer game that in being polite to people.

Well done, Jon, on an informative article!


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 7

Hoovooloo


Au contraire Blackadder, I am not interested in this computer game. Specifically, I did not mention it, completely irrelevantly, in an entry that had no business bringing it up.

Indeed, informative entry. As I say, factually inaccurate in its details and less useful than its Wikipedia equivalent, but hey, that's the speed for h2 these days, no?

SoRB


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 8

Hoovooloo


(suggestion, btw: when someone points out a glaring factual inaccuracy in an entry you've written, usual form is simply to correct it. I'm amused at the churlish carping, but really it doesn't reflect well.)


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 9

the_jon_m - bluesman of the parish

its an edited entry, I can't edit it. Which is why I suggested the EF forum where people who can edit it could see this.


4 words in an entry is not a glaring mistake. It was advice I took in good faith from somebody who claimed to know a little more about that particular side of the entry than I did. Frankly I think the people who are reading this are more intrested in the facts about it than what random bit of game it appears in. I do not expect to be abused by an obtuse gamer who somehow expects everybody to as obsessed with gaming as he obviously is.


I checked out the wiki entry as well as many more scientific entries and used information from all of them to make this entry.


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 10

Hoovooloo


You see, it's that kind of high-handed, ignorant arrogance from Scouts that made me stop writing Edited Guide entries. That, and the fact that while I actually cared about accuracy, I seemed to be in a minority of one. Plus ca change.

I point out an error and receive ignorant excuses in return and *I* am obtuse? smiley - biggrin Right.

I am not obsessed with gaming. I say again - *I* did not write an entry with a reference to a videogame in it. You did. Since you obviously don't care whether that reference had any relevance or accuracy, I can't see any point in discussing this further. Thank you for reassuring me that h2g2's standards remain.

SoRB


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 11

Sir Ernest Bagnose KFC

Arrogance? Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

The offensive line has been removed, anyway. No doubt some editor read this.


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 12

Hoovooloo


Your reasoning is faulty, Bagnose.

...

Sorry, I just had to say that.



SoRB


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 13

Evil_Duncan

Crikey! Calm down folks.

At the risk of being savaged by SoRB I can't resist arguing that h2g2 is not and never has meant to be Wikipedia. Sure Wikipedia is inarguably more comprehensive often more accurate, but hell, h2g2 is just more fun.

I refer you to the words of the great man himself: "In many of the more relaxed civilizations on the Outer Eastern Rim of the Galaxy, the 'Hitchiker's Guide' has already supplanted the great 'Encyclopedia Galactica' as the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom, for though it has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, it scores over the older, more pedestrian work in two important respects. First, it is slightly cheaper; and second, it has the words 'DON'T PANIC' inscribed in large friendly letters on its cover."

I think the point is that h2g2 and Wiki serve different purposes. If I want to find out about something and be sure the information I am getting is accurate and be directed to sources, further reading and scientific literature then I'll turn to Wiki. If on the other hand I want to be entertained and maybe learn something then I'll go to h2g2. Often I'll read both sites, though I would almost always start with the h2g2 entry to give me a flavour of the subject first.

Finally SoRB, please don't take offence, but may I point out one word in the above quotation? That word is "friendly". h2g2 is meant to be a friendly community. I read this entry from a completely neutral perspective and can't help feeling that you were a little ungracious in your comments on "errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions," and positively aggressive when your own comments were politely criticised. Just my opinion of course, nothing more.


Errors, flaws, inaccuracies and omissions.

Post 14

Whisky

Oooh, too late to take part in the arguement unfortunately, but one point of the initial posting made me think...

"Can anyone who contributed to this entry explain how it can be night on a Dyson shell?"

Didn't contribute to the entry, but I'd have thought it was quite easy...

Construct a separate sphere, inside the first made up of 365 longitudinal strips of solid matter and with spaces between the strips to allow sun to shine through... Spin the whole sphere so it rotates once every 365 days and you've night and day. - and you've even got north and south polar regions because less sun would get through at those points.

And if you really wanted to be a smart alec, you could always vary the ratio of solid matter 'strips' to the space between them to produce seasonal differences.


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