A Conversation for Advanced Driving Techniques

braking on a bend

Post 1


Just wondering if it is necessary to break on a bend. I kinda thought that surely you would see the bend coming up and would slow down as oppose to breaking, ie take foot off excelerator.smiley - magic

braking on a bend

Post 2


obviously all drivers never make mistakes, especially regarding observation...so never meet a problem half way around a bend?

Sometimes, a heavy car may not slow down sufficiently on over-run, to meet the demands of the bend, so assistance is sought using the brake pedal?

Misjudgements of this nature must, however, surely be rare given the drivng skills of the 99% of motorists who as so aware of their surroundings, they always do the correct thing? {as distinct from those who, whatever they do, manage by luck to avoid any problems?]

However, there is a school of thought out there in the Driver Instructional World..bless 'em....that feels that actually braking INTO a corner...at speed.....places addtional pressure [weight] onto the front wheels, allowing them to grip better.

braking on a bend

Post 3


I have been driving for many years rear wheel drive,front wheel drive,and now 4 wheel drive cars,the principles are still the same.When I was young I had a friend who was a police driver he gave me good advice that has stayed with me.Never brake in a bend,the cars reaction is to go sraight on,always keep wheels rolling this way you have more control,avoid road markings as they are very slippery bad when wet,also they are raised causing steering wander.Imagine when driving fast around a bend,if there was an object in your path would you have enough control to avoid it.smiley - biggrin

braking on a bend

Post 4


Your Police person friend was right..but only to a certain extent.....and bear in mind, at the time of the advice, car [and tyre] technology was quite different from today's.
[however, I acknowledge that in fact, car technology, especially suspension and steering, really isn't all that far away from that of 50 years ago..]

The crux of the matter is the phrase ''keeping the wheels rolling''

If using the brake pedal, the driver must exercise care so as not to lock the wheels...

ABS goes some way to reduce the effects of this situation, allowing relatively unskilled drivers to emulate the skills of more competent souls.

However, when offering the advice of 'never brake in a bend', one should qualify that by adding..''if one finds one is driving too fast in the first place?''

None of the above should detract from the need to observe properly in the first place.....

''Information recieved''
''Information sought''
''Information given''

all the above can only be improved upon by experience....

the rest ..position, speed, gear, acceleration..could be easily taught to those chimps that recently escaped Chester Zoo.

In my view, drivers should avoid the ''umptions''

presumption, assumption, consumption, and any others folk would like to add??

braking on a bend

Post 5


I live in the countryside where I often have to driver around blind bends on a single track lane; with the shear stupidity of some drivers who forget that cars may be coming the other way, I have had to brake whilst cornering.

With situations such as this able to occur, whilst a driver should always try and avoid braking around a bend, they should at least know how to do it properly and safely if it is ever required.

braking on a bend

Post 6


There should technically be nothing wrong with braking whilst cornering, if you can left foot brake. Shifting the weight forward can give you more front end grip. The problem occurs when you lift off the throttle and try and brake which will upset the cars balance and can cause oversteer.

braking on a bend

Post 7


The next question raised by the above is...should a driver really be travelling fast enough to need additional front wheel grip if braking on a bend?
And....what about a rwd car?

Or a 4wd vehicle?
Or a bus?

The real problem with left-foot braking, [outside of competitive driving, on a closed road, with no likelyhood of conflicting traffic ]is, one of 'application.'

Typically, one's left foot is more used to a heavier pedal application, so braking with that foot, for someone not used to doing it, will likley result in harsh braking, leading to locked wheels, no steering, and inevitably an increased risk of loss of position.

[not forgetting it will be impossible if driving a vehicle which has the steering column placed between one's legs?}

It strikes me this technique has much to do with a driver attitude of, 'press on as rapidly as possible, and hope re-actions, technology and help from the other driver will see us through'....??

Do it by all means....everything is ok, until something goes wrong??

Regarding driving down narrow lanes...the skill of anticipation is generally ignored...the main factor involved is 'closing speed', ie how fast two vehicles, each out of sight of the other, are coming together.

Each driver is convinced that, though they each cannot see very far ahead [vanishing point of road getting very close to front of car]....the fact that they each may have reduced their speed to what each considers a very reasonable level, ought to be enough.

If each is moving at 25 mph, then their closing speed is 50MPH!

The effect of this is, once each driver spies the other, then the time each has, to respond to the other's presence, is as if EACH were doing 50mph!

Which speed, each may consider, absolute lunacy?

To be reasonable, there really is only 'so far' one may be expected to reduce the amount of one's speed.....[not a good idea to be driving faster than the speed at which one can stop, COMFORTABLY, WITHOUT DRAMA, within the distance one can see to be clear ahead?]

Too many car drivers seem totally unable , or find it unacceptable, to adopt speeds below 20mph, yet, for a lorry,this can be excessively fast, within a confined situation [for a lorry]....very narrow lanes have the same confining effect on cars, yet few recognise this.

so what does one do to mitigate the effects of 'closing speed?'

For me, road position is an important factor.....along with speed of course....

By adopting an extreme left position, on approach, and whilst negotiating, a bend which offers poor forward vision, one is, effectively, accurately placed in the position one would like to swerve into, if ignoring everything else.
Also, potentially it leaves an 'escape route' for the oncoming driver, down one's right side.
Couple that with a speed one knows will allow one to stop without drama, and one will better cope with the mistakes of others.

[Proof of my pudding? The day I caught out HRH Prince Charles, in his car, with following entourage, on a narrow Scottish road..I coped with ease and comfort...strained faces of other drivers said they did otherwise...smiley - erm]

braking on a bend

Post 8


I think that the general principle of safe cornering is to ensure that your position, speed and the appropriate gear are all selected prior to negotiating the actual bend. This then leaves the driver with both hands on the wheel to safely steer around the bend, as well as use gentle acceleration sense to maintain traction throughout. This then allows smooth acceleration away from the bend as you will be in a responsive gear.

Using forward vision to assess the road surface, other road users present and the "Limit point" if visible will allow the driver to gage the appropriate speed to negotiate the bend.

Regardless of front or rear wheel drive the aim should be to distribute the traction to all 4 wheels as evenly as possible. For example if you are braking on a right hand bend then most of the weight is being applied to the front wheels, more specifically the front left hand wheel because of centrifugal force. This obviously makes the vehicle unstable. Equally if you are accelerating hard on the same bend then most of the weight is being applied to the back wheels, again specifically the left one. A car is much more stable when traction is applied evenly to all 4 wheels.

The concept of being in the correct position, at the appropriate speed and with the most responsive gear for the vehicle that you are driving selected prior to any hazard is the key to advanced driving.

braking on a bend

Post 9


'For example if you are braking on a right hand bend then most of the weight is being applied to the front wheels, more specifically the front left hand wheel because of centrifugal force. This obviously makes the vehicle unstable.'

No, braking during a corner in a FWD car will cause weight transfer to the front wheels which will give them grip... up to a point. The car may well be more stable when GRIP is applied evenly to all tyres, but for ultimate performance you require more GRIP on the wheels doing the more work.

braking on a bend

Post 10



''Position, speed,and gear appropriate to that speed'' are far from 'advanced'' concepts, with driving....they are fundamental within basic hazard drills...fundamental to any sort of 'preparation' for dealing with, any sort of hazard..[a hazard, in this sense, being anything which will make a driver change what they are already doing]..and as such are 'basic' driving skills.

In my view, the greatest asset of ''advanced'' driving is the improved use of the ''information'' phase.

In reality, it is this phase of driving which ought to improve with experience.
[however, advanced driver training also deals with the inability of many people to 'learn' from experience]

Certainly, I find 'anecdotal' evidence to suggest that new drivers who have undertaken the [primitive] Hazard Perception test are better equipped to identify ''problems developing'' than new drivers of 20 years ago.

braking on a bend

Post 11


are you advocating braking with left foot whilst accelerating with the right? If so what group of individuals or orginisation do you get this method from?smiley - winkeye

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