h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I thought I was pretty smart. I can usually spot scams, especially technical ones. Anything to do with computers I can see a mile off. Today I was scammed. All they had to say was 'HMRC' and 'court case' and my scam sensors went offline.

The scam is that HMRC has done an audit and found that you haven't paid all the taxes due for a particular time period. You can either go to court to fight the case, or pay up. They don't take credit or debit card details, so they can't be done for that kind of fraud. Instead they ask you to go to an HMRC certified office to buy 'bonds'. They give you a deadline to get the bonds, usually a tight one. This means that you need their plan B - pay by another means. Alarm bells should have rung the minute they mentioned iTunes. They remained silent. I'm not saying how much I was conned out of. The fact that I let myself be conned is bad enough.

If someone phones you claiming to be from HMRC, ask for a number to call them back. If they give you one, hang up and check the number on the HMRC website. If they won't give you a number, hang up anyway.

That's terrible, thanks for the heads up. I do hope it wasn't much.

One question - was this an email scam or a phone call? I ask because my next door neighbour mentioned he had "the tax man" round the other day because he apparently hadn't paid tax some of his private pension. He doesn't own a computer but if this was a phone scam maybe I should mention it to him.

Deb

It was a phone scam. If you have a mobile phone, or a landline with caller ID, a number to be wary of is 02033897247.

Looking back, there were so many aspects of the call that should have made me suspicious. Unfortunately my MS makes me react badly to stressful situations - like calls that are supposedly from HMRC. I just didn't tell things through.

I've informed my bank and they'll review the case. I may or may not get the money back. I'm also trying to contact Apple to see if they can do anything.

That should have been 'I didn't think things through.'

Numbers can be checked at several sites including this one:-

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/02033897247

This link is to CD's scam number.

You have informed the police haven't you CD?

PP.

I simply don't answer numbers I don't recognise any more. If it's genuine they'll leave a message.

I've informed the police and posted a report with Action Fraud. The police told me that they've been investigating this fraud for about two months.

Action Fraud do a regular newsletter with details of current frauds and scams. I signed up for it when I posted my report. If anything of interest comes up, I'll post it here.

You labeled this as UK centric, but we're seeing similar scams here in the States, especially this year as new "Obamacare" rules have gone into effect further confusing many tax filers. They typically claim you under paid your taxes and need to immediately reimburse the difference often demaning the purchase of prepaid debit cards which are hard to track.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/phone-scams-continue-to-be-a-serious-threat-remain-on-irs-dirty-dozen-list-of-tax-scams-for-the-2016-filing-season

I wait for the snail mail from the tax office/bank/post office before I react..I also use an answer phone to screen out this rubbish so anyone about to scam me will just ring off and move on to the next victim.They strangely NEVER EVER leave a message.

Any family member knows enough to phone me on my mobile because I also NEVER give my mobile number out to ANY website not even my bank.

Oh, I do. Specifically I give my mobile number to my financial websites so I can use 2-step verification so that no one else can log into my accounts.

This scam is happening in Australia too. They ring you with a pre-recorded message saying "We're from the Tax Office - ring us on (local phone number) to discuss your court case with the Tax Office."

I reported it - the number apparently redirects to an overseas number and from there it's the same requests for payment - even through iTunes.

Our government Scamwatch says that because it's based overseas there's not much they can do about it

It's a shame they use the pre-recorded message - last time I got one of those "your computer is faulty" calls I played with them and they ended up hanging up on me Kept me amused for a while....

I can handle computer-related scams. They're usually fairly obvious. The minute I hear 'your computer', I hang up. The mention of a court case caused a stress reaction, so I wasn't thinking straight. I mentioned the relationship between my MS and stress when I spoke to my bank's security department and they said it might be relevant in the decision over whether I got my money back.

I called this thread UK-centric because the caller claimed to be from HMRC. I suppose it's not surprising that similar scams are happening in other places. It's interesting that the Australian scam is being run outside that country - and added level of protection for the scammers.

Maybe I'm a little behind the 21st Century, but how much money can you transfer through iTunes? I'd only really associated it with music and app downloads - a few quid tops. I'd never have conceived it allowing you to transfer funds of the size of a large tax bill, and to buy stuff not related to IT/media products. Is there a way it can be capped?

"All they had to say was 'HMRC' and 'court case' and my scam sensors went offline."

Given that at the age of 47 I have never, even once, received a telephone call from HMRC, I think that's where my scam sensors would have perked up.

If I had to offer just one piece of advice to someone about avoiding scams, it would be to assume that *every* stranger who calls you or emails you is trying to scam you. If it's important, they write in the post - ALWAYS. And if it's not important, they won't call or email.

My bank NEVER calls. My utilities suppliers NEVER call. My local council NEVER calls. My credit card companies NEVER call. Every single important interaction I have with people who have a legitimate claim on some of my money happens via hard copy pushed through my door by a human.

Whereas I would say, out of all the phone calls I receive from numbers not already in my contacts list, at least 99% are scammers. Some are recorded messages, some are humans with British accents, some are, bafflingly, people calling with foreign accents so thick I can barely make out what they're trying to scam me into doing. These latter ones puzzle me the most - what do they hope to gain from just making people say "I'm sorry, I didn't catch that, could you repeat it?" over and over again?

If someone phones you claiming to be from HMRC, or your bank, or the BBC or the church or the police or the courts or the bailiffs or wherever - DO NOT ask them for a number to call them back. HANG UP. Just hang up. Don't waste your time, don't worry yourself about maybe calling that number (which WILL be premium rate to Nigeria) just in case. HANG UP, and forget they called. If it's important, they'll write. If it's really important, they'll turn up. But I'll bet you a pound sterling that if you hang up, they won't even call back. They'll just move on to the next sucker on their list.

Readjust your attitude as follows: if someone phones you and they're not on your contacts list, you didn't ask for the call and didn't expect it, then they are criminal scum who are trying to con you out of money - hang up. There's a 99% chance you're right, and the 1% of legit people who ring you unsolicited (like who?) should understand why you have this attitude.

Good luck getting anything out of Apple.

I'm trying to remember if I got one of those 1% calls when my debit card was used in Las Vegas. My bank noted that I had purchased gas near home only an hour or two earlier. I think they called me, but maybe they sent me an email or a snail mail, but I'm pretty sure they called me.

But you're right. Even if they did call that one time, I think that's the only time my bank or any other legitimate agency has called me unsolicited... Other than various charities asking me to renew memberships I had already renewed.

I once got a letter from HMRC (or at least an offshoot) which was so badly written, contained such weirdly threatening language and had an odd reference number (something like PAY-UP-NOW127) that I was sure it was a scam. I phoned them up (via the number I looked up myself) and the person on the helpline thought it was a scam too when I described it down the phone.

Turns out it wasn't a scam, it was an actual bonefide letter they had sent me (by mistake).

That's not very reassuring, to be honest, but it does show how difficult it is to tell sometimes.

@Baron Grim:

Now you mention it... my credit card company *did* call me once, about ten years ago, for the same reason as you.

I was waiting for scam-talk, but they didn't ask for anything beyond my name (which I'm happy to confirm if someone calls me, otherwise it's just silly). Once they'd established that, they just said something like this: "We've had a transaction in a shop in [county 200 miles from where I live] that was flagged as suspicious, and we've blocked payment because we think it wasn't you. We'll be sending you a new card as we think your old one is compromised. You can keep on using the old one for now, when the new one turns up destroy the old one, sign the new one and carry on as normal. There won't be any charge for this." And that was it.

I was on pins waiting for the "And now we need your old card details please just to confirm", but it never came.

One piece of extra advice regarding phone scams. It is possible even if you think you are being careful, to be caught out. It works like this. Some-one calls and tells you they are your bank and they need you to do something with your account. Being a careful person you decide to actually phone the bank's number and not any number they may give you. Good thinking, but here's the warning. If you end the call but they don't, whatever number you punch in, they will still be waiting on the other end!

I am not sure how long you would need to wait before the line is disconnected between you, but to be safe, either leave it as long as possible, an hour or more should do it if you think the problem is non urgent, or if it is urgent, USE A DIFFERENT PHONE.

That's one thing that bugs me with films. The called person hangs up and the other person gets dial tone. Maybe the US phone system is set up for 'called party clear' or 'either party clear'. In the UK we have 'calling party clear' - the person making the call is paying for it, so the call doesn't end until the caller hangs up.

But it's good advice to check caller ID on another phone. Scams that rely on 'calling party clear' have been going on for some time.

In the States, our phones used to work that way, but I don't think they do anymore. I don't often use land lines anymore, but I'm pretty sure they fixed that quite a while back. Besides the problem mentioned above, this also tied up lines that might be needed in an emergency. I do remember, back in the day, when someone would call you and not hang up properly and your phone would be locked up until they finally noticed or needed to make another call.


Even where this is still the case, if you do try to call directly and the caller is still on the line, you should notice there isn't a dial tone. Unless your phones work differently.