A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 1

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

This is probably more 'Agony Aunt' style "Ask h2g2" than actual factual inquiry. Or maybe it's just therapy for me. I'm just not sure what I should be doing.

You see, a friend of mine started writing a book. It is a somewhat adapted form of a D&D campaign he runs, in which I have a character. He started showing us the first few chapters, and around this time he mentioned that he is dyslexic. Fine, I thought, he knows he has a weakness, and I know his ability with prose is very good because of the stuff he has produced for our D&D campaigns, albeit vocalized. Sure enough, when I read them, the chapters had quite a lot of errors, mostly in the area of punctuation.

"No problem," I thought, "He knows he's dyslexic, so this is stuff he didn't mean to do. I'll just tidy it up." I mentioned one or two of the mistakes, and he got annoyed. He said he would tidy up that stuff later, it wasn't important, he just wanted notes on the shape of the story, the style, how the characters were portrayed. I did my best to provide this.

Now, a large part of what went wrong (and possibly all) is that I am a grammar pedant. I am OCD about spelling, punctuation and grammar, especially in prose. I really think I have a genuine psychological problem, although I feel it's a small problem. While I was reading his text, the mistakes were bugging me so much that I couldn't get one with the broader stuff. So I cut and pasted a copy for myself, and edited it to remove the mistakes. I think it's important to state at this point that nobody has seen my edited version except me, at any point from then to now.

A couple of times since then, he has repeated his point that he wants the prose to be reviewed by his beta-readers as is, with little things like spelling/grammar mistakes tidied up at later stages, once the 'big stuff' is definitely on track. So I kept my version to myself. I also got quite a bit behind everyone else who was reading it, mostly because I have terrible time management, and am pretty busy too, but partly because I was taking the time to edit as I went.

Today, I let slip what I had done, and he is very angry with me about it. In trying to explain, I used analogies like a Roman mosaic that needs the dirt cleaning off it before we can see the pattern, and generally related the mistakes to unpleasant things that one wouldn't want to be on there. I thought I was on pretty safe ground with that, because he said he was diagnosed dyslexic, and so (in my mind) had to recognize that they were mistakes, and have made peace with the fact that they are mistakes. All this only made him angrier, though.

He pointed out that none of the other readers had seen fit to defy his instructions, and yet seem to have no trouble giving him the feedback he wants. I admitted that I have a problem, that it is a personal problem, but that I couldn't focus on the big problem (if there is indeed such a thing, as I have discovered no such thing thus far) because the little stuff was blaring at me and distracting me. I also insisted that all I had to do was fix these little problems, an easy task which I could do myself, and the whole would become clear for me to see. In his anger, he told me to not bother reading, if I was having such trouble with it, but I *want* to read it. It's fundamentally good stuff, at heart.

I know I have made some big mistakes here, but I appear to have antagonized him a lot because I viewed his dyslexia as a handicap, an obstacle to be overcome and then forgotten about thereafter, like getting a false leg for an amputee. The answer isn't that simple for dyslexia, though... and yet it is a lot more simple, because once it's fixed, everyone is reading the same prose. The dyslexic people don't notice that it's right, any more than they notice when it's wrong. Also, if it is a handicap, surely the way to react to it *is* to confront it the way I did, rather than dancing patronizingly around it. Right?

Right? smiley - sadface


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 2

bobstafford

Tough one!

As there are grades of dyslexia and sufferers feel very exposed when others view their written work. This stems from school days if they had a hard time in school, they can be very touchy about criticism and and having thair work edited.

Is sounds like he may have wanted you to comment on his work not an edited vision. An edit may have diminished his effort some how, and as you were very privileged to be given the opportunity to comment on his work, it may have caused frustration. They were his words that is why his instructions were so explicit.

If you have his original or a copy on your PC print the original and comment on that.

I have friends who have the same problem. So my answer is based upon them, your friend may have other reasons though and I could be very very wrong so tred softly.

Good luck


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 3

bobstafford

And yes it is a handicap and a big one for a creative person to deal with.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 4

Sho - employed again!

you both have a problem. Yours is being a pedantic person about grammar etc, and he wants to leave that.

The only course if you want to remain friends is for you to walk away from this particular project, I fear.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 5

Otto Fisch ("Stop analysing Strava.... and cut your hedge")


Think Sho may be right about this one.

I can understand why your friend is unhappy. He's asked for comments on the big picture, not the minutiae. He already knows that there are errors, but they can be sorted later, and there's little point proof reading until a near complete version. Depending on the degree of dyslexia, I'd imagine that there might be a degree of re-writing involved, not just fixing typos.

I'm not dyslexic, but I do have a slight stammer (see A87720014) and I really don't like it when people try to finish my sentences for me. Or worse, try to finish my thoughts for me. While that's not the same thing, I can understand why someone would be sensitive about it.

Having said that, I would also find it difficult to set aside grammar/spelling errors. I wouldn't have the same compulsion to edit them, but I'd struggle to see past them to give the content my full attention and to focus only on the content.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 6

Sho - employed again!

I think it could be a matter of just saying "look, we are a bit immovable object vs. irresistable force here, and it's not worth losing our friendship over"

and maybe offering your services as a proofreader for the final version?

good luck


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 7

Dr Anthea - ah who needs to learn things... just google it!

being a dyslexic myself I do struggle with spelling, grammar and punctuation which is why i hate handing over anything hand written (computer spell checks help me a lot.) Often I will ask my husband to review an assignment I have written to ensure that the content makes sense and the over all structure is good and yes I do get annoyed when he points out the lack of punctuation, when I am writing along with a flow of thought, I can't afford to stop and think about when I should be using commas and full stops never mind some of the more technical punctuation types... I tend to punctuate once I know what I've written is ok or I will forget where I intended to go next and become frustrated with myself.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 8

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

He sent me a long email this morning, telling me how insulted he was by my behaviour, and that he would not be sending me any more of his work. I replied, saying I understood, and that I hoped it wouldn't jeopardize our friendship. I suspect it has anyway.
I can't see any other way of proceeding.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 9

Icy North

I've walked away from a couple of sub-edits on this site when the grammar, spelling and punctuation mistakes overwhelmed the article, and made it frankly impossible.

Having said that, I'm not as grammatically pedantic as I used to be. Have you read Oliver Kamm's columns in the Times where he debunks all the pedantry?


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 10

Pink Paisley

It sounds as though neither of you has really understood the other's difficulty.

Beer.

PP>


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 11

Baron Grim

Yeah... you didn't do anything wrong, per se. Your friend is overly sensitive about this. Which may be understandable. As Otto and Dr. Anthea mentioned, growing up with something like this can leave one rather sensitive. All you can do is what you've done already. Apologize, explain and leave it at that.

Your friend may have been conditioned to have a defensive response anytime his spelling and punctuation is pointed out and you've just stepped into an emotional trap. He may or may not realize this. He might and may now feel embarrassed about reacting as he did. It could lead to a bit of feedback loop.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, just know that this is a sensitive topic to be avoided in the future.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 12

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

Just so we are clear, I hereby declare a lift on any moratorium of "What were you THINKING?! That's incredibly offensive! You were an idiot to behave like that." If this is what you were thinking, but decided not to say it, let loose. I can take it. I can believe people might refrain from really castigating me out of politeness, even if it is clear to them that I have done incredibly wrong.
Obviously, stay within the filther, but I don't want to feel in any way vindicated unless I am actually vindicated. I'm a Catholic, so guilt is the sea we swim in.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 13

Florida Sailor All is well with the world

Hi bob

I have been meaning to post here, but the others have pretty well expressed my thoughts.

I think the main point is nobody wants to be helped with a disability, especially without their requesting it. I think it embarrasses them, and makes them admit to their problem.

I used to know a girl who was born totally blind. One of her greatest prides was that she could dial all her friends on the telephone without assistance. I remember one time I was with her and she dialed a wrong number, her reaction was to berate the person on the other end for having answered the wrong telephone! I am sure the person on the other end had no idea why she was so upset. As tempting as it was to assure that we had all mis-dialed a number from time to time, I am sure it would have only upset her more.

I remember one evening my mother spent half an hour chatting with a stranger who had called her by accidentsmiley - blush

I am sure you meant no harm, but at this stage it would probably be best to just drop the subject and try to talk about other things.

smiley - goodluck

F smiley - dolphin S


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 14

Sho - employed again!

I don't think you need a "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING" at all. It's a very awkward situation. I do think you were possibly wrong, but you were trying to help someone and the only way you thought you could do that was in doing what you did.

I seriously don't think you intended to cause any offence at all. and hopefully your friend will soon come to see that.

smiley - hug all round - it's a VERY awkward and uncomfortable situation.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 15

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

Well, thanks for the reassurance. smiley - smiley I daresay things will be a bit frosty for a while, but I can handle that.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 16

Sho - employed again!

smiley - goodluck


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 17

ITIWBS

Is dyslexia a handicap?

I've got a left handed aunt, a dyslexic nephew and I'm ambidextrous myself.

Dyslexia, given that the dyslexic is aware they've got the condition and have appropriate training managing it actually confers superior ability in mechanical and visualization tasks.

Its primarily a handicap precisely on account of the excessive sensitivity of the dyslexic to criticism and correction.

Training to compensate involves deliberately and systematically working out alternative symmetry groups and solutions.

The problem is rather similar to the confusion most people have selecting the correct solution to a sheaf of alternative solutions to algebraic equations with negative or imaginary roots, of which only one is correct.

Its natural to resist the mental labor of systematically checking the alternative solutions one by one against the physical issues the model is supposed to relate to, rigorously defining those relationships is the nature of pedantry itself, and is a skill it takes practice to develop.

Its precisely that habit that the dyslexic reflexively resists, preferring, sometimes very inappropriately, to go with their first impression.




smiley - ermI'm reminded of a dyslexic civilian contractor I was working with once who had a contract to remodel some open bay area army barracks to create private cubicles.

It was only with difficulty he was persuaded to orient himself to the compass and stick to the buildings he was supposed to remodel.

He'd initially reversed north and south on his map.

It proved impossible to persuade him to orient correctly with respect to the internal modifications he was supposed to make, with the consequence that rather than hanging a privacy curtain next to the door, screening the cubicle next to the door from view, he hung it instead uselessly against a wall at the opposite end of the bay which already satisfied the privacy requirement, with the effect that he finished with one fewer private cubicles per barracks than was provided on his plans.




Visualization games can help, for example n-dimensional tic-tac-toe (naughts and crosses), expanded into 3 or more dimensions.*




*There's a trivial first move win if the game is played in a 3x3x3 space.

The rule is that you increase the side of the square by one per additional dimension to allow of a draw, 4x4x4 in 3d, 5x5x5x5 in 4d, etc..

Easing them into it gently, one can let the neophyte player discover the trivial 1st move win for themselves.

Visualizing the quadratic manifold provides a framework of orientation for organizing alternative solutions and symmetry groups and playing the game induces an urge to find a correct rather than a careless solution.




smiley - biggrinOn ambidexterity, I wasn't always ambidextrous.

As a matter of fact I failed of legibility with both hands the first time I tried.


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 18

You can call me TC

Are you sure you're the only one who can't read it without being bothered by the mistakes? Surely everyone is somewhere along the spectrum between dyslexic and pedant, and others will have had the same problems as you.

My sympathies are entirely with you, because I'm a bit like that, too, and would give up after two lines. But I have had some insight into dyslexics' view of things. Then there are those who might not be dyslexic but simply don't see why we should bother to use spelling and punctuation in the "proper" way.

I hope you reconcile things soon. The best outcome would be that he learns to take your criticisms more lightly and you learn to be less critical. (If you manage, let me know how you did it!)



Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 19

Baron Grim

Hey, y'all should all be proud of how well I've handled my impulse control issues.

I still haven't made the obligatory dyslexia and ambidexterity jokes.

smiley - headhurtssmiley - run


Is dyslexia a handicap?

Post 20

bobstafford

Well done smiley - applausesmiley - biggrin


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