A Conversation for Ask h2g2

JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 21

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

Kirk was supposed to be loosely based on Captain Hornblower? smiley - wow I loved the film "Master and Commander." I've been meaning to read the books that that was based on, but I keep forgetting to do so.

So many books to read, but even with plenty of spare time I find that there are still a lot waiting to be read after I finish each one.
[I'm about 2/3 of the way through the Discworld series. I had hoped to have them all finished by now, but I've gotten distracted by things like getting a visa for Saint Petersburg. The Russian embassy is very intolerant of application errors, however small...]


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 22

dragonqueen - eternally free and forever untamed - insomniac extraordinaire - proprietrix of a bullwhip, badger button and (partly) of a thoroughly used sub with a purple collar. Soon to be Boss

The first interracial kiss was between Kirk and Uhura. Spock were hooked up to Christine Chapel. The episode "Plato's stepchildren 3rd season. smiley - blush

The new movies is soo slashy. smiley - ok I guess/hope this will fuel the fantasy of K/S writers and give many hours of smiley - drool reading.

What I don't like is the lack of independent women. Much of Uhura is her relation to Spock. Carole Marcus is daughter/sex object foremost, not a skilled scientist. In the scene were Starfleet Command is assembled there is not one single woman present! Most are middleaged while men.

Otherwise I liked the movie and will definitely buy a 3D bluray when available.

smiley - dragon


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 23

Sho / Flo - what's the difference?

pls define "too slashy" ? smiley - drool

The lack of good roles for women needs to be addressed, this is a reboot after all.

Paul - Master & Commander is based on the Patrick O'Brian Aubrey/Maturien novels but none the worse for that (I loved the films, can't get into the novels) Hornblowers are easy to read (and after that you can hit Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe series which is Hornblower on land...) but if you prefer there were some pretty good at TV versions.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 24

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

There were some interesting women in "Star Trek, the next generation." I liked Deana Troi, Gaia [played by Whoopy Goldberg], and the doctor [sorry, can't remember her name. She had a teenage son].


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 25

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

"pls define "too slashy" ?" [Sho]

With pleasure. There is something called "slash fiction," which is stories written by fans of a great film. "Brokeback Mountain" inspired a lot of it. Some of the slash fiction was sent to Annie Proulx, who erupted in anger. She thought they were challenging her ownership of the characters in the story "Brokeback Mountain." Mostly they wanted a happier ending, one in which Jack didn't die.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 26

Sho / Flo - what's the difference?

sorry, Paul - I've been a writer of slashfiction (but not Trek) in the past so I'm aware of what it is. smiley - kiss

But TOO much? doesn't register in my book smiley - winkeye


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 27

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

smiley - doh

I hope you haven't sent your slash fiction to the original authors. They tend not to appreciate it. smiley - yikes


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 28

Sho / Flo - what's the difference?

I've never slashed a book - but I'd never send it anyway, there are all sorts of reasons not to.

But (slash) fan fiction is a lot older than Brokeback Mountain. smiley - smiley


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 29

Hoovooloo

"In the scene were Starfleet Command is assembled there is not one single woman present! Most are middleaged while men."

Unfortunately that does accurately represent how Starfleet command has been established, and the reboot's divergence from history took place AFTER that. There was a specific line in the 89th and last ever episode of the original series, "Turnabout Intruder", where an old flame of Kirk's has a go at him because, to paraphrase, it's a man's world in Starfleet. Specifically, it's an established Trekfact that in Kirk's time, there are NO female starship captains.

Of course, TNG sorted that out with various female captains and admirals, including making the final captain of the previous Enterprise a woman (Rachel Garrett, in "Yesterday's Enterprise") - indeed it went as far as specifically saying, in the first season episode "Conspiracy", that the youngest person ever to make captain by the time of TNG was a woman, Tryla Scott.

But the "man's world" thing was clearly a product of the sensibility of the time the original series was made, and while they could portray a multicultural crew with an alien, an Oriental guy, an African American woman and a Russian on the bridge crew, showing a woman in a position of authority was a step too far. Indeed, Mr. Spock wasn't always first officer. In the original pilot, Majel Barrett (who was Nurse Chapel in the original series, as well as Lwxana Troi in TNG and DS9, and the voice of the computer in the original series, TNG, DS9 *AND* Voyager) played a ballsy and unnamed "Number One", while Spock was just science officer. The studio specifically rejected the idea of a female in such a high rank, and Roddenberry didn't push it - although he did kind of push back by making Spock first officer instead.

The reboot films unfortunately have to reflect the rather backward setup of Starfleet if they're to have any semblance of continuity. Of course, they're free now to change it going forward, but they are rightly going forward from the starting point they've been given.

(If there are any mistakes in the above, please forgive me - it's all entirely from memory, without reference to any book or website... now THAT is knowing too much about Star Trek...)
smiley - popcorn

All that said, the "turn around, now" scene, for all it was very, very nice to watch smiley - drool for the one second money shot, was appallingly misjudged. It completely pulled me out of the scene, and there was absolutely no reason for it.

I disagree about Uhura, though. Her chat with the Klingons was a pretty badass scene, I thought...


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 30

Tavaron da Quirm - Arts Editor

I have bought and watched the first part now and I love it! smiley - biggrin


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 31

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

Oh, and Majel Barrett is also Mrs. Gene Rodenberry.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 32

dragonqueen - eternally free and forever untamed - insomniac extraordinaire - proprietrix of a bullwhip, badger button and (partly) of a thoroughly used sub with a purple collar. Soon to be Boss

Sho, it's SOO slashy, not too.. doubt anything could be too slashy smiley - winkeye

hm, might have to watch it again soon

smiley - dragon


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 33

Sho / Flo - what's the difference?

I will now have to wait for the DVD having blown my pictures-going budget already. And I can't believe that I wasn't looking out for those slash moments, but that could have been because i wasn't sitting next to smiley - chef who I like to annoy by nudging him when I see something like that.

For the next film: More of those great Klingons, please.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 34

Tavaron da Quirm - Arts Editor

Oh yes, more Klingons please!


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 35

Just Bob aka Robert Thompson, plugging my film blog cinemainferno-blog.blogspot.co.uk

Never mind the Klingons, I want to see more about the Vulcans. They were left in an intriguing position at the end of the previous movie, and I am sure it has the potential to spawn some really interesting storylines.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 36

dragonqueen - eternally free and forever untamed - insomniac extraordinaire - proprietrix of a bullwhip, badger button and (partly) of a thoroughly used sub with a purple collar. Soon to be Boss

I want more Nimoy, he IS Spock.. Quinto's Spock is smiley - drool but nobody beats Nimoy.

smiley - dragon


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 37

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

Post 29 was awesome, Hoovooloo! smiley - smiley Although I like Spock a lot, I'm intrigued that the original plan had a woman character doing his job on the Enterprise.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 38

Orcus

Yes, that and the previous info on the interracial kiss remind me that I'm not that much of a Trekkie thank the lord smiley - winkeye

I always thought I was until I started seeing the knowledge displayed by real Trekkies (Trekkers still?) and it's good to see it continuing.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 39

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

The original Star Trek series came on in the late 1960s when I was in college. I was *extremely* busy in those days. The only TV show that I saw with anything approaching regularity was "Laugh In." I've seen many Star Trek episodes in reruns since then, but I never seemed to see them in the order that they originally cam out in. Then I became fond of "The next generation," and watched it regularly. I think I saw all or almost all of those. That's why I grew so much more detached to the Next generation characters than the original crew. I still love Data and Deanna Troi.


JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

Post 40

paulh. Come visit Blemnox at A87815181

Typos! I meant "attached," not "detached."

[smiley - run to try and find mind]


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JJ Abrams and his Star Treks

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