A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 101

Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic.

>>Could we get back on topic, please?<<

Has a h2g2 forum *ever* remained on topic? smiley - tongueout

but sure, we can try.

It seemed to me to be a natural tangent to what we were discussing, which was the parameters of what such a discussion of sensitive topics (peoples religious beliefs) could partake.

It is in part a comment on why I think such a discussion is in many doomed to fail in this instance becuase it is very difficult to remain properly agnostic, and people will assert *as true* their beliefs even when they have no way demonstrating not only how they know them to be true, but why others should think so likewise.


So less of me, more of you - (and I was going to say something about Sufi Mysticism an' all, but I guess that'll have to wait...)


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 102

fluffykerfuffle

smiley - space
i have been talking about discussing sensitive subject smiley - erm

lines

does that count? smiley - biggrin


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 103

Peanut

we have quite a list of sensetive topics

perhaps we could have a sensetive topic of the week posted on Ask


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 104

fluffykerfuffle

smiley - space
page turner: Posted 3 Days Ago by quotes

Do you fear being scorned about merely discussing certain subjects?

For example, when Princess Diana died, there was an unspoken insistence that it was not decent to criticise the mawkish outpourings of the nation. Later on, many commentators felt able to speak about how awful they found this sentimentality, but at the time, they felt they couldn't. Other subjects remain difficult to discuss; if you started a topic criticising the Paralympic Games, you'd be a monster, and if your topic be genetics, you'd risk being labelled a nazi.

Do you have such a subject?


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 105

Effers;England.


I felt uncomfortable with the criticism of excessive sentimentality that came later. As someone who actually attended the funeral and lived in London I had a different perspective.

I was struck at the funeral by the make-up of the crowds - it was easy to get talking to people as we slept out on the street, (No. 12 bus stop in Whitehall for my girlfriend and myself smiley - biggrin; (we made especial friends with a lovely Aussie guy. People took it in turns to guard viewing places. It was intensly communal.

There were definitely far more women than men, very large numbers of gay people and black people, (many black people in my street felt able to express a part of themselves normally hidden and made elaborate and interesting shrines), and at the event many homeless people were very visible.

It wasn't that I had any particular fondness for Diana, it was the fascination with it as a cultural phenomenon..oh so unBritish and non stiff upper lip that has plagued my life. Others clearly felt similarly. So for one mad week we became almost medieval...and yes people were expressing strong emotion.

It's said that British people often have problems expressing grief, and in a way people could displace personal grief onto Diana.

She was defo a symbol for many excluded people such as homeless, who still at that time were a common sight sleeping rough on the streets of London. Now they are hidden away in hostels. Disappeared. I know what that feels like having been homeless myself for a year.

It's complex smiley - biggrin


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 106

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor

I like the idea of listing these topics so that we could discuss them later. smiley - smiley Sort of as a 'wish list'?

So, we've mentioned eugenics and Princess Di (and other forms of group emo behaviour), what else?

I remember running across a forum full of very intelligent-sounding people who shared (carefully) 9/11 jokes. About 2 weeks after the event. Now, there's a sensitive topic.


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 107

fluffykerfuffle

smiley - space
here ?! dmitri?


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 108

Peanut

well it was half in jest Dmitri but we don't have a smiley for that

although when the threads posted by the community eds first came about I wondered if for the future it might be an idea to have a more topical thread on Ask that was a little more hosted


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 109

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor

That's a thought. smiley - smiley (I'll bet somebody's listening.)


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 110

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

List:

religion

spirituality

Princess Diana

Sept 11

eugenics




Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 111

Z

Animal testing

Abortion

Meat Eating. I can upset a lot of people with my opinions on that...


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 112

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

>>
I think I've striven to be as un-hostile in this thread as possible, but I am making my case that religious conversations seem to circle around the 'is it true' plughole, becuase people so do often believe they are true, and not every religion can be true, by definition.
<<

Clive, I can understand why you believe what you just wrote. In the literalist world view it makes complete sense. For those of us that don't have a literalist world view, it doesn't ring true. The world I live in is more fluid than the one you live in, and hence I feel I am able to understand certain things that you do not. This is what I meant earlier when I asked if you had considered the possibility that you may have an inability to understand certain things.

For me that is the crux of the god thread culture on h2g2. There are a number of people who are blind in certain areas and are blind to the fact that they are blind. Makes it really frustrating for many others. I liked what Peanut said earlier about maybe some people taking a step back if others are trying to have a conversation that is not fitting their understanding of the world (and by that I don't mean is god real or not, I mean does it matter).


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 113

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

homeopathy


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 114

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

>>
Could we get back on topic, please? And could the folks who are *really* interested in agnosticism, or whatever it is, please...

...take it outside?

So the other people could talk about discussing sensitive topics?
<<

Dmitri, I consider the religion aspect of this conversation to be on topic. Here's why: if I were to start another thread, I would at the very least have to explain in the OP what has happened in this thread, and ask that people post sensitively and maturely. We have *no* precedent for that on h2g2, which is the point of this thread. Exactly the point I think. So practicing talking about religion maturely in this thread makes sense.

I do agree that focussing on other aspects of the topic is important too smiley - ok, and I think there is a limit to the religion discussion here ie it should stay focussed on the issue of how to talk about religion, and not just go off completely into a discussion about religion itself.


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 115

U14993072

Reality based thinking v magical thinking?

Or literalism v. post modernism.


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 116

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

Interesting gurus. See in the context of h2g2 culture, I'm not sure if those suggestions are likely to lead to mature discussion. The term 'magical thinking' is used overwhelmingly as a derogative here and it's hard not to see that in your post. Was that what you were meaning?


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 117

Witty Moniker

There is indeed a precedent for posting sensitively and maturely on h2g2. Lil's Atelier has a no tolerance policy for rude and insensitive contributions. It has worked for years and years and is one of the most civilized corners of hootoo.


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 118

Z

Well it's Z here, and that was me doing some guruing.

You see I made two suggestions, both of which were the same things, the bottom one was the one in language which 'post modernists' are more comfortable with, and the top one is language which reality-based thinkers use.

I have to admit I choose not to discuss things with non-reality based thinkers. I don't mind if other people do, but they're not discussions I can take part in. I don't see how I can have a discussion without an agreement on what evidence or what proof is.


Can we discuss sensetive topics maturely?

Post 119

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

Z, you probably have no idea how offensive that post is smiley - smiley Which is kind of my point to Clive (not that he was offensive, but that you are both blind to something and this blindess prevents the conversation).

btw, I am neither post-modernist, or what you call reality-based thinker. Actually I am a reality based thinker, I think you're terminology is wrong there. I would use the term literalist. I also think that the dichotomies you present come from your world view, and are useful in some conversations and not in others. They have no real, instrinsic value other than what we give them. There are other, meaningful ways of exploring the world, reality based ones, that don't use those dichotomies.

*

As an aside, I went to the gurus PS and was about to come back and suggest it was a troll post. Now that you have said you were guruing, I am completely confused. Do you mean in this thread?


Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

Post 120

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

Witty, Lil's Atelier is almost a separate community smiley - winkeye I'm curious if you discuss religion, and more importantly, spirituality there, and how that works.

I'm also curious how the no tolerance policy is enacted - I assume you don't primarily use the moderation system.


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Can we discuss sensitive topics maturely?

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