A Conversation for The Freedom From Faith Foundation

Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6301

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Yes, placebo could well be the basis for it.

Clinical psychologists often ask patients to fill one in at their first session...but then they don't use it.

Scales for things like depression hypomania can be useful...either as self-diagnostic aids, or to reassure patients that they are fit the pattern of a common illness.

But as for IQ tests.....Pish! Binet invented them as a way of identifying children who were falling below the average and therefore needed more help. They were never meant to select the 'better' children and send them to better resourced schools.

There have been various theories of multiple intelligence - ie different kinds of aptitude for different things (numbers, language, inter-personal skills, self-knowledge, etc) But why measure them? Who's to say that one kind of intelligence is better than another? Who's to say that *any* kind of intelligence is better than, say, being able to run fast, to give a good back rub or having an attractive body smiley - steam


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6302

Gone again

Gonna have to watch this, Ed! smiley - huh I agree with everything you say! smiley - doh

smiley - biggrin

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6303

GTBacchus

I'd say that being able to run fast or to give a good back rub are both related to types of intelligence. As far as attractive bodies go... there's some real pretty covers on some real dumb books out there.

Ultimately, life is the only intelligence test that means anything. If you can make it work out for you, who's to call you stupid?

Still playing along though... I think I switched from a T-type to a J-type around the time I stopped being an atheist.... and I'm an early first house Capricorn, with moon and rising signs Sag! smiley - winkeye

GTB


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6304

Gone again



"early"? "first house"? Too deep for me. smiley - doh I'm a Capri-quarius smiley - biggrin, being born on the cusp of Capricorn and Aquarius (January 20th 1955 - my 50th birthday was a week ago. Half a century - not bad, eh? smiley - biggrin). I don't know my moon sign(s), but I was born in the (Chinese) year of the Horse, if that helps? smiley - winkeye

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6305

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

>>I'd say that being able to run fast or to give a good back rub are both related to types of intelligence

So what do you mean by intelligence? Are you saying that these abilities are correlated with a notional 'general intelligence'? In which case, could Albert Einstein run fast and give good back rubs? I'd say they are more closely related to the skills of running and massage. My other point was that these, like physical attractiveness, are simple matters of luck. We should be humble about our advantages.

I'm a Caesarean, by the way.

(Actually, according to astrological mumbo-jumbo, I'm a Capricorn also. What does that tell us?smiley - smiley Same star sign as Jesus, of course.)


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6306

Gone again



Well it tells us that you were born in the winter, and maybe suffered more from the cold in your first few months of life than those born at other times? It also tells us that you were conceived in the spring (April), unless you were delivered prematurely. The fertility of sperm, and maybe the gender of the child, are affected by temperature, so this could also be meaningful. smiley - huh

Even more speculative smiley - doh: astrological data defines the position of the planets at the time of your birth (and by extension, at the time of conception), and the micro-variations in gravity due to the position of the planets could have some influence on you and your development (although it seems that such a small effect is unlikely to result in significant effects on you).

There *are* possible (if not plausible! smiley - winkeye) ways in which we could be influenced by our star signs, though I know of no evidence to support this.... smiley - biggrin

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6307

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Hmm. I'd be inclined to identify an effect *before* trying to speculate as to its potential causes, myself.




'Capricorn, eh? What are they like?'
'He is the Messiah, the chosen one, King of the Jews'
'And that's Capricorn, is it?'


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6308

Gone again

Others have claimed there is an effect; I merely observe that there are potential hypotheses to explain how astrology *could* (not 'does'! smiley - winkeye) have a basis in the real world. Personally, I make no claims at all regarding astrology.

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6309

Gone again

BTW, *you* asked ; I responded with a number of possible answers to your question. smiley - winkeye

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6310

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Sorry - to clarify: Three different Capricorns with divergent opinions, no?


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6311

azahar

Four. smiley - smiley

az
(January 7)


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6312

Gone again

Another trend emerging? smiley - huh All contributors so far are intuitive thinkers. Several seem to be Capricorns.

Any more Capricorns?

Any more wacky features some or all of us share? smiley - laugh

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6313

Matholwch - Brythonic Tribal Polytheist

Hi P-C smiley - smiley

Sorry to bust the trend but I am sun-sign Leo, as well as being a Chinese Pig.

As for the rest of your question, what do you call wacky? After all I travel to the otherworld and commune with gods, spirits and the sidhe.

Blessings,
Matholwch y Mochenddu /|\


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6314

Gone again

<...what do you call wacky? After all I travel to the otherworld and commune with gods, spirits and the sidhe.>

Sounds perfectly normal to me.... smiley - winkeye

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6315

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

No you don't! You just think you do! smiley - run


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6316

Gone again



Note: I know and happily acknowledge that this was posted as a joke! smiley - ok

The trouble is, what you say implies not only that Math's view of the 'real' world is mistaken in some way, but also that yours is not. smiley - doh This leads, as we all know, to lengthy discussions about objectivity and the like.

In the final analysis, neither your judgement nor Math's can be shown to be correct (i.e. proved). So why do you say (in effect) 'I am right and you are wrong' when you can't offer proof (any more than the other guy can)? smiley - evilgrin

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Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6317

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Fairynuff. No need to go there again.

Anyhoo...back to astrology. So: We've maybe found that Capricorns may have a tendency to think intuitively. What other hypothesis shall we now selectively test to demonstrate that astrology works?

It reminds me about some garbage I heard on TV about an identical twins study. Two middle aged men were separated at birth and raised in adjacent counties in one of the southern US states. There were all sorts of similarities...they worked in a similar industry...their wives had the same name...they drove the same model of car. The researchers, who were obviosuly ignorant about statistics worked out the proabbility of the job was X, of the wife's name Y and of the car, Z....so the chance of having *all* those things in common was X times Y times Z....or (akso incorporating some other factors) several hundred thousands to one. How spooky was that?!!!

Now, several quite elementary things spring to mind:
- The variables probably weren't independent. The industry may have been predominant in that area. Lots of Amerian women of a certain type are called Darleen or whatever. People of the same age in the same culture might well drive the same car (chosen from a limited range of possibilities)
- You cannot related variables multiply like that. This is the very nonsense that got Angela Canning wrongly convicted by that fool Meadows.
- More relevant to astrology (I *knew* there was some point I was trying to makesmiley - smiley) - in what other ways were they *different*.

At the time, I remember talking to a friend and colleague. We both have twins. We share a profession...and even worked in the same office! His partner and mine shared professions two....and we lived close to one another. What does this tell us? Zilch. Unlike me, he liked football, had one eye and lousy taste in music....etc. etc.

Moral: Don't go digging for data.


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6318

Lear (the Unready)

<"Any more Capricorns?">

Yes, one more for the list. (13th January)

Intuitive? Well... I 'knew' I should come back and read this thread today, and hey presto it turns out that for the first time in ages I have something to add to it. smiley - winkeye

Stereotypically Capricorn in being goat-like and stubborn, too, as most people who know me will gladly testify.


Lear


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6319

azahar

<>

Why measure them indeed. What is the point? I would wonder more about the 'measurer' than the 'measuree' to be honest.

There are so many forms of intelligence and none of them can actually be 'measured' except in pathetic attemps by those who have serious problems simply relating to people and who feel a need to categorize them somehow.

I find that type of person quite tedious myself.


az


Lies, damned lies and statistics

Post 6320

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Yeah, but you would say that. Typical Capricorn!

(Jan 12th, me)


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