This is the Message Centre for Icy North

Korrang!

Post 1

Icy North

The news story of the week is that the oldest surviving fragment of the Koran has been discovered. Experts have radiocarbon dated it to around 645AD, only a few years after the death of the prophet Muhammad. It is quite possible that the writer may actually have known Muhammad or heard him speak. This is a significant historical discovery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021

So where was this priceless document discovered? It was in a library in Birmingham, UK. Somehow it got from the Middle East to The Midlands (West).


Birmingham, England's second city, is best known as one of the centres of the Industrial Revolution. It's a vast conurbation of decaying industrial sites which once housed noisy foundries and factories, particularly in the Black Country, the area to the west of the city.

Its inhabitants, known as Brummies, speak with a curious lazy drawl of an accent (A496352). Perhaps their most famous export of recent years is Ozzy Osbourne, who became a reality show star on MTV with his dysfunctional family.

Heavy Metal music is another of Birmingham's inventions. As well as Ozzy's Black Sabbath, bands like Judas Priest and half of Led Zeppelin hailed from the area, as well as such lighter alternatives as The Moody Blues, Traffic, The Move and the Electric Light Orchestra.

It's also the birthplace of HP Sauce, Cadbury's chocolate and Bird's Custard - the original custard factory site now serving as an arts venue.


Which brings us back to the Koran. If this is really the oldest surviving written record, then maybe, just maybe, it is Birmingham itself which is the birthplace of that religion.

Was the text actually referring to the Mecca Bingo Hall in Kingstanding:

http://goo.gl/maps/PRijH

...or the Medina halal supermarket in Lozells Road?

http://goo.gl/maps/Y5HK7


You decide.


Korrang!

Post 2

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

I like "Black Sabbath." I also liked Sharon Osbourne's singing in the recording of "Missa Gaia." [Sorry about the topic drift. I'll try to behave. smiley - blush]

If Birmingham might be the birthplace of Islam, are its residents ready for the annual Hadj of the faithful? smiley - winkeye




Korrang!

Post 3

Icy North

They'll flock to the University minaret:

http://goo.gl/maps/FkMzq


Korrang!

Post 4

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor

This is smiley - cool news. I hope it will lead to interest, productive interfaith dialogue, and good things for both UK Muslims and Brummies. smiley - smiley

New manuscripts are always a fun find. Keeps academics in tea and canned goods. smiley - winkeye


Korrang!

Post 5

bobstafford

It will cause trouble as the religious leaders may cause trouble to get it, this is a highly significant document and fundamentalists may be prepared to kill to get it.smiley - erm


Korrang!

Post 6

Gnomon - time to move on

I'd be interested to know does this earliest copy contradict anything in the normal Quran. Since it is older it would take precedence.

Something similar happened when Ireland's Chester Beatty came across a fragment of one of the gospels and it turned out to be oldest known copy. They had to revise the Revised Standard Bible as a result.


Korrang!

Post 7

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor

What did they have to revise on the RSV that time? smiley - bigeyes

Considering the method of transmission for the Quran, I doubt there'd be any big surprises, but it would be fascinating to see what turns up.

Considering the messy proliferation of early Christian texts (and the wholesale purging that went on later...smiley - whistle), it's really amazing how consistent the basic New Testament texts are.


Korrang!

Post 8

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

"New manuscripts are always a fun find. Keeps academics in tea and canned goods." [Dmitri]

If it precedes other versions, wouldn't it be an *old* manuscript? smiley - winkeye


Korrang!

Post 9

Icy North

I just watched the BBC TV news, and they implied that this document fragment seems to support the text in use today, rather than contradict it.


Korrang!

Post 10

Recumbentman

Pity about the Cadbury's. Can't bear the stuff. There's not enough cocoa in it to meet EU regulations, so it can't be sold as 'chocolate' outside GB & Ireland.

http://eucenter.wisc.edu/chocolate/Students/ChocolateBattle.htm


Korrang!

Post 11

Icy North

I prefer the stronger stuff too, but it's a bit snobbish to seek to ban it for that reason. It's chocolate. It's just milkier than the others - for those who like that sort of thing.

But it funded some useful plundering of antiquities in the 1920s, and that can't be wrong, can it?


Korrang!

Post 12

Gnomon - time to move on

I love Cadbury's chocolate.


Korrang!

Post 13

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

I like Cadbury's chocolate, but it's not the same as the stuff you find in GB, owing to an agreement by which Hershey's of Pennsylvania manufactures Cadbury for the North American market.


Korrang!

Post 14

Gnomon - time to move on

The Hershey's chocolate I tasted in America tasted like soap to me.

I believe that American chocolate uses sour cream in the process instead of milk, giving it quite a different flavour.


Korrang!

Post 15

Recumbentman

OK, Cadbury's chocolate tastes like lard to me.

Flame war!


Korrang!

Post 16

Bald Bloke

I agree, more so since they were taken over by Kraft smiley - sadface


Korrang!

Post 17

Baron Grim

Yessss.... Sectarian strife. smiley - evilgrin


Korrang!

Post 18

Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor

I eat German chocolate, which I get at Aldi's. smiley - laugh And I live in Pennsylvania now, home of Milton Hershey.


Korrang!

Post 19

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

"The Hershey's chocolate I tasted in America tasted like soap to me." [Gnomon]

That's only fitting, as soap tastes like chocolate to me. smiley - tongueout
[Just kidding! smiley - silly]


Korrang!

Post 20

You can call me TC

Not quite sure how we got on to chocolate from the Koran, but for my smiley - 2cents I can't eat dark chocolate. I don't like it, and it certainly doesn't like me.

However, I think I can see a way round the problem of Cadbury's being banned in Europe - we don't call it "Chocolat" (French) or Chocolade (Flemish - I think), but we call it Chocolate. That's a different spelling. A different word. smiley - winkeye

Anyway - I can get it from the English Shop in Cologne any time.


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