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Where the internet meets the upper classes
Icy North Started conversation Mar 21, 2015
For reasons too long to go into, I had to look up the correct form of address for a Viceroy. It's probably historical now - I don't think we have them any more since the British Empire disbanded.
Anyway, after a fruitless search I suddenly remembered Debretts. This stuffy organisation publishes lists of people in the aristocracy.
I found their website and was impressed with how posh it looked: classical fonts, tasteful photography, and the gold and dark green shades you'd only see in a stately home. Even the little icon for a their online shopping page is a very expensive-looking handbag.
http://www.debretts.com/
Browsing the site, you'll find some pure gold (excuse the pun). See for example their 'indispensable guide to British life and manners':
http://www.debretts.com/british-etiquette/british-behaviour
I'll be raiding that for future guide entries, I'm sure.
Anyway, caught in the reverie of my sudden elevation into the upper echelons of society, I suddenly remembered why I'd come to the site. I found the search box and typed in the word "Viceroy". Sadly, my illusion was shattered in every way. The response was:
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Where the internet meets the upper classes
SashaQ - happysad Posted Mar 21, 2015
Reminded me of "Remember when you were more easily led, behind the cricket pavilion and the bicycle shed..."
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Recumbentman Posted Mar 21, 2015
Wow. why did you need to address a viceroy?
Would "Your Viceregal Highness" do? Or "Your Vicious Majesty"?
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Mar 21, 2015
I hope you addressed him or her respectfully.
They used to take these things seriously in some quarters.
When I was at uni, I learned the following:
When our German secretary wrote from the Romance Studies Department in Cologne to the head of the university in Cluj, Romania, she called him 'Your Magnificence'. She didn't understand why I was laughing.
In Iceland, there was actually a 'polite' pronoun, but nobody used it. They were SUPPOSED to use it for the President, but they would forget and call him/her 'thou', anyway. And nobody cared.
Now, both the Carpathians and Reykjavik are the back of beyond. One's dignified, one's not. There's no accounting, I guess.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Recumbentman Posted Mar 23, 2015
There is material for an Entry here. I've been told that there are seven levels of address in Japanese, observed with such rigour that strangers are obliged to exchange business cards before they can speak to one another.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Lanzababy - Guide Editor Posted Mar 23, 2015
Etiquette!
Is one of the Entries I've been meaning to write about for ages now. I found an ancient book, much thumbed, which belonged to my Grandmother, born just at the turn of the nineteenth/twentieth century, which predates her own parents. It's annotated in the margin in places. It's "Etiquette" for ladies and gentlemen in all circumstances: balls, calling on each other etc etc. It's in England at the moment and I am elsewhere, or I could look up how to address various nobility.
I was much influenced by this Grandmother, she made sure we always carried a lacy hanky at all times for instance, as this was considered essential.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Icy North Posted Mar 23, 2015
It's exactly the sort of thing the Edited Guide was set up for - we have a very popular entry on global tipping etiquette, for example.
(Many in the UK tend to load up a white van and take it down the nature reserve, but I digress)
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Recumbentman Posted Mar 23, 2015
Curious facts rise to the surface, such as: the reason a bishop is addressed as 'your grace' is that C of E bishops had (have?) seats in the House of Lords and 'your grace' is the appropriate address for a duke (or something) that they considered themselves equal to.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Icy North Posted Mar 23, 2015
I guess it's for the same reason we call a judge "My Lord".
Reminds me of the old chestnut:
Policeman (giving evidence): 'When we apprehended the suspect, he was as drunk as a judge!'
Judge (interrupting): 'Er, I think you'll find the correct terminology is "as drunk as a lord!" '
Policeman: 'Yes, my lord.'
Where the internet meets the upper classes
You can call me TC Posted Mar 23, 2015
Without checking, I would think that a Viceroy is a government-appointed position and not a member of the peerage, so perhaps that's the reason you didn't find them there. Which countries still have a viceroy, anyway?
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Icy North Posted Mar 23, 2015
I'm not sure whether it's more of a governance or a diplomatic role, to be honest. If the latter, then I would expect a form of address like 'your excellency' (as Bob suggested earlier).
If it's more administrative, then, well, Debrett's suggests 'Your excellency' again for a governor general.
We don't use these for central government, though. We address the prime minister as 'prime minister' or 'Mr Cameron'.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
bobstafford Posted Mar 23, 2015
Lets get the Viceroy bit right
Vice is a Latin prefix meaning in the place of, Vice Chancellor, Vice president and so on.
Roiu is specific to a royal personage from the French word roi or King, so is literally a Vice Royal
So as a Viceroy is the King/Queens stand in and is addressed as Your Excellency
Where the internet meets the upper classes
bobstafford Posted Mar 23, 2015
NB a Viceroy normally used to run a country, colony, or city province.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Baron Grim Posted Mar 23, 2015
I did a quick Google for how to address a viceroy and the top hit was a PDF that also suggested "Your Excellency". I didn't open the PDF but here's the link if anyone is interested.
http://www.adrianempire.org/documents/coa/arms-address.pdf
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Mar 24, 2015
Viceroy was such an elegant name for a cigarette, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abb1xNB49qE
Yes, that's Sue Ellen from 'Dallas'.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Sol Posted Mar 24, 2015
My Mrs Beaton's (1980s) has a page on how to speak to and write to everybody from the Queen down. I shall have a look if it includes Viceroys, although I don't think so. Perhaps my Granny's edition does though.
Where the internet meets the upper classes
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Mar 24, 2015
The Spanish colonies in the new World had a lot of viceroys. Those colonies are now all independent. I don't know if any viceroys are left in the world. If there aren't any, then the only time you'd need to know how to address one would be if you were a character in a fantasy novel that had one .
Where the internet meets the upper classes
Recumbentman Posted Mar 31, 2015
"For reasons too long to go into, I had to look up the correct form of address for a Viceroy."
I think we now have our appetites whetted. Reasons, Icy?
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Where the internet meets the upper classes
- 1: Icy North (Mar 21, 2015)
- 2: SashaQ - happysad (Mar 21, 2015)
- 3: Recumbentman (Mar 21, 2015)
- 4: bobstafford (Mar 21, 2015)
- 5: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Mar 21, 2015)
- 6: Recumbentman (Mar 23, 2015)
- 7: Lanzababy - Guide Editor (Mar 23, 2015)
- 8: Icy North (Mar 23, 2015)
- 9: Recumbentman (Mar 23, 2015)
- 10: Icy North (Mar 23, 2015)
- 11: You can call me TC (Mar 23, 2015)
- 12: Icy North (Mar 23, 2015)
- 13: bobstafford (Mar 23, 2015)
- 14: bobstafford (Mar 23, 2015)
- 15: Baron Grim (Mar 23, 2015)
- 16: Bluebottle (Mar 24, 2015)
- 17: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Mar 24, 2015)
- 18: Sol (Mar 24, 2015)
- 19: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Mar 24, 2015)
- 20: Recumbentman (Mar 31, 2015)
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