A Conversation for Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Peer Review: A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 1

Gnomon - time to move on

Entry: Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version - A87849319
Author: Gnomon - U151503

This entry was in Peer Review before. The previous conversation is at F22144687?thread=8313125. Please post any new comments here rather than at that conversation.


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 2

bobstafford

This is very good just a small point the headscarf is a definite must but women in knee-length skirts and men in shorts are also frowned upon.
Brilliant entry smiley - oksmiley - cheers


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 3

Gnomon - time to move on

Thanks bob. I've added the following just before the mention of the headscarf:

Avoid having bare arms or legs.


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 4

bobstafford

smiley - ok


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 5

Phoenician Trader

Is the entrance hall a "narthex" rather than "atrium"?

The atrium would have existed as a colonnaded square in the front of the church (moved to the side in Western monastic churches as called as "cloister"). However atria aren't really halls with a roof.

Julian


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 6

Phoenician Trader

I have just re-read it. It is beautiful entry.

smiley - lighthouse


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 7

Gnomon - time to move on

Narthex or Atrium?

A good question. One is Greek and the other Latin, and they describe two different architectural structures. The reports I've seen said that Procopius, writing in the 6th Century, said that it shared an atrium with the church next door. But at that stage, people would have been writing in Greek rather than Latin, I think, so I'm suspicious. I'll see if I can find the actual text of Procopius's description.


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 8

Gnomon - time to move on

Hmm. Here's a translation which gives some of the original words, in Greek, which shows that Procopius was writing in Greek:

"But whereas they possess a single colonnaded stoa, called a narthex because of its great length, for each one of their porches (prothyra), they have their propylaea (propylaia) entirely in common, and they share a single court (aulê), and the same doors leading in from the court (metauloi thyrai), and they are alike in that they belong to the Palace."

To mean this suggests some sort of an open space shared between the churches rather than a covered narthex. So Atrium probably is the correct word even though Procopius didn't use it. What do you think?


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 9

Phoenician Trader

I think that they shared both the colonnaded atrium "square" (that still exists at the front of the Blue Mosque) and narthex.

That is because both buildings would have faced east, so a double length narthex on their western frontages (that was probably also a double depth narthex too) would make sense. You could leave one church and exit to the outer narthex and walk to the other and enter into its inner narthex and then into the nave.

The outer atrium/colonnade/cloister then would have had the baptistery, palace and other residential/palace/administrative buildings off it on the west/north sides. The main entrance was possibly off the south side (this is a guess... it would be the south side in Europe later on and I am assuming that this is an older tradition).

smiley - lighthouse


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 10

Phoenician Trader

Actually the baptistery may have been in one of the narthex. I really can't guess.

smiley - lighthouse


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 11

You can call me TC

Nothing to do with the entry, which is impeccable, and which I already commented on in the previous version, but the story of Sergius and Bacchus stuck in my head and got confused with Cassius and Florentius, also 2 Christianised Roman soldiers who were martyred. The Minster in Bonn (where I have been a few times recently) is dedicated to them, and, symbolically, sculptures of their decapitated heads are to be found outside the main door.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_und_Florentius#/media/File:Cassius_florentius_muenster_bonn_20080509.jpg

So - reviving this entry has resolved my temporary confusion - thank you!


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 12

You can call me TC

smiley - doh

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_und_Florentius#/media/File:Cassius_florentius_muenster_bonn_20080509.jpg


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 13

Gnomon - time to move on

I've just discovered this 360° photo on Google maps of the interior of the church. This link might or might not work:

http://www.google.ie/maps/@41.0025391,28.9720017,3a,75y,133.9h,102.93t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s-gOOAOGy2LXo%2FVTX-UomFycI%2FAAAAAAAAEPA%2FvQ0ygx6zzZ0!2e4!3e11!6s%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-gOOAOGy2LXo%2FVTX-UomFycI%2FAAAAAAAAEPA%2FvQ0ygx6zzZ0%2Fw203-h101-n-k-no%2F!7i10240!8i5120


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 14

You can call me TC

It works, but it's taking ages to load.


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 15

Bluebottle

An enjoyable read. smiley - smiley
One quick point – fortunately you nicely define a mihrab (prayer niche), minbar (ceremonial staircase), which is handy for someone like me with no knowledge of such things.

You then say
'There's also a raised platform, the müezzin mahfili, in the nave with a stairs up to it which is used by the muezzin'
So what is the muezzin? I assume they're the person who uses the muezzin mahfili. Also, should there be an umlaut on both words' u? Your Turkish entry says that u is pronounced 'oo' and ü is 'u', so are they the same word/name, or very similar with slightly different pronunciations?

<BB<


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 16

Gnomon - time to move on

The muezzin is one of the two officials who presides in the ceremonies in a mosque. He's the guy who used to shout the call to prayer from the minaret, before it was all changed to recordings through loud speakers.

The word is a reasonably well known word in English, so I used the normal English spelling, without the umlaut on the u. In 'müezzin mahfili', it is a Turkish phrase, so I put in the full Turkish spelling.

I'll put the umlaut on both words, and will add a note about what the muezzin is.


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 17

Bluebottle

I've read through and you've covered everything I've previously mentioned. The only thing I spotted was 35 degress - 35&deg; or 35 degrees, but I digress.

<BB<


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 18

Gnomon - time to move on

Thanks BB. I've fixed that. I rarely use the spelling checker because it objects to all the foreign names and provides dubious advice. In this one it suggested I should say "bear arms" instead of "bare arms", for example.

I think if I went into a mosque with bear arms, I might cause offence.


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 19

Bluebottle

If you had bear arms but not bear hands, would that be okay?

<BB<


A87849319 - Little Hagia Sophia Mosque, Istanbul, Turkey - PR Version

Post 20

Bluebottle

I've had another read through and the only thing I can think of to suggest is a link on Saint Peter to A765128 The Fate of the Last Supper Thirteen - a Very Brief Addendum

As an aside, part of me wonders whether the reason Saint Bacchus appealed to Roman soldiers was in part due to his namesakesmiley - bubblysmiley - drunk

<BB<


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