A Conversation for Grims Ditch from Hampshire to Middlesex

Peer Review: A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 1

bobstafford

Entry: Grims Ditch Hampshire - A87797399
Author: bobstafford - U3151547

Please comment a basic guide/index to the various unrelated monuments called Grims Ditch.


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 2

Tavaron da Quirm - Arts Editor

Hi bob smiley - smiley

I will write the following comments as I read the Entry, so they come in the order in which they occur to me.

' However this entry is concerned with the best known and easiest to see section of Grims Ditch, the 14 miles - 23 km, in Hampshire.'
Is this true? You talk about that one in more detail, but not exclusively.

At the end of the introduction you have a footnote with some long number. I guess it must be some kind of registration number, but could you add an explaination for us foreigners?

part about Grims Ditch Hempshire:

2nd paragraph: 'However the differing construction styles in the various sections of the monuments do cast some doubt on that.'
There is doubt about what?

4th paragraph: 'The Hampshire section has an unusual form for a defensive work as it takes the form of a ditch between two banks.'
I don't think this is very unusual for a ditch? Or is it only unusual compared to the other Grims ditches?

5th paragraph: 'Walkers may like to know that the Jubilee Trail runs close to Hampshire section of Grims Ditch '
Would it be woth mentioning what the 'Jubilee Trail' is? Or is it not important?

Somehow I feel a bit lost at the end of this section. How big is this ditch? How deep, how wide? I can't imagine it at all. What kind of significance does it have? Was it ever used for anything in known times? Are there speculations about why it was built? Why should I go there and have a look at it? Are there any old tales about it maybe?

Unfortunately I don't know how to improve the next part of the Entry. I have the problem that all these names of places tell me nothing at all. But I guess that cannot be helped.

I see you have added a section about 'Why Was Grims Ditch Built'. I think this should be moved further up. Before the description of the Hampshire ditch.


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 3

Gnomon - time to move on

This is not really structured as an entry, Bob. It's just a lot of notes that you took about different things and cut and pasted together. They're often contradictory or repetitious and the total effect on the reader is confusion rather than enlightenment.

I suggest that you write the entry from scratch rather than trying to work these into shape.

1. Decide on some headings for the different sections that will be in your entry. Perhaps something like:

Introduction
The Purpose of the Dykes and Ditches
One Structure or Many?
Who Was Grim and When Did They Get Their Names?
Grim's Ditch Hampshire
Other Ditches
Conclusion

Then just start writing the entry. Don't repeat yourself. If there's anything that doesn't fit into those headings, leave it out, but note it elsewhere. If you some of the sections seem a bit sparse, do more research. If at the end you have a lot of stuff that was omitted, see can you make a new section so that it all can be included as a single topic. Don't just bung it in because you think it is interestign. It has to fit the theme of the entry.

smiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 4

bobstafford

good ideasmiley - ok


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 5

Tavaron da Quirm - Arts Editor

How is it going? smiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 6

Bluebottle

I can't believe there hasn't been any more comments on this since January. How is it coming along?

<BB<


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 7

bobstafford

Hello thanks forvteh interest BB.

Quite well in word but real life in the way at that moment,don't worry not forgotten. Any suggestions regarding structure, format and content nows a good time. smiley - cheers


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 8

bobstafford

I have reviewed this entry please commentsmiley - ok


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 9

Bluebottle

It is definitely looking better.smiley - smiley

I can't help but feel there are perhaps too many footnotes - even I try to keep it under 10 nowadays. Generally, I think that perhaps anything longer than a short, simple sentence could perhaps be incorporated into the main body of the text.

I'd also try to reword the opening paragraph as there is a degree of repetition there, and maybe rephrase the sentence 'this entry is concerned with the best known' as it now covers the others in more detail. Perhaps change to 'chiefly concerned'

The first footnote would perhaps work well in the text, either in the opening paragraph or in the 'Other Grims Ditches' section.

<BB<


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 10

Phoenician Trader

I must admit that I have just read it for the first time and did go a bit glassy eyed. There are quite a lot of small paragraphs that resemble each other fairly closely. It might be nice to consolidate them and highlight the contrasting points. Also information in the initial footnotes seems to appear in the closing paragraphs.

Does it just need a stronger narrative structure?

smiley - lighthouse


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 11

bobstafford

Footnotes reduced and alterations made comments please smiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 12

Phoenician Trader

This is very readable now - a huge amount of work. There are some proofing matters to address (aren't there always) such as

"Although the name Grims Ditch is probably not the original, as is thought they were named by early Viking settlers after the Norse Grimm, better known as the God Woden. They appear to have given the name to many similar features in the south east England."

Where
a) the first sentence is missing some words
b) it is unclear why it couldn't have been named after a Viking god (I am happy to guess it is to do with dates)
c) who "they" are who name such things

Still these are minor matters and this is good work.

smiley - lighthouse


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 13

bobstafford

The answer to your question Phoenician Trader

And the proposed footnote
Although the name Grims Ditch is probably not the original, is thought they were probably named by early Viking settlers after the Norse God GrimmThis area was the home Dorsaetas the area was possibly disputed with the Meonwara from Hampshire as it is close to their mutual border. the first Anglo Saxon King of the area was Cerdic is the start of his reign is not recorded but he died around 519 AD. he claimed descent from the God Woden in Norse Grimm. It is possible the Anglo Saxons named the monument but it is more probable that it was the Vikings who were active in southern England after the death of Cedric, and named many landscape features after their gods.that, better known as the God Woden. The Vikings appear to have given the name to many similar features in the south east England.


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 14

Phoenician Trader

Just goes to show that it is unwise to make simplistic assumptions on a site a learned as this!

Colour me impressed.

smiley - lighthouse


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 15

bobstafford

Is the footnote sorted any potential queries regarding the naming or does it need more.

My entry(s) on the Saxon heptarchy have further information.

Any more corrections needed. smiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 16

bobstafford

I am tempted to put the last footnote in the text comments please


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 17

Tavaron da Quirm - Arts Editor

In my opinion nothing that long should be in a footnote, so yes, put it in the texxt. smiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 18

bobstafford

Will do anything else to do smiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 19

bobstafford

All done anything else to dosmiley - smiley


A87797399 - Grims Ditch Hampshire

Post 20

Bluebottle

Much better.smiley - ok

One thing I would suggest changing is that you now have two sections entitled 'The Andersweld Forest'. This could potentially lead readers to ask themselves 'have I read this bit already?' I'll let you decide if you can combine the two sections into one, or perhaps rename one of them?

One theory I've heard was that the ditches were possibly constructed to control movement rather than defend, making it easier to levy traders coming and going. Does that deserve a mention?

<BB<


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