h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Plymouth Exile

I don't think that the complexity of the design (itself) should dictate which flag gets chosen. If the population want a particular design I wouldn't feel comfortable overruling that for the sake of simplified production.

After all - if a complex design is the most popular it will have the greatest demand.

I suggest we find out what the most popular is (if we get a newspaper poll) and then look at pricing options.

They are not all bad.

I just logged onto some of the WMN paper group websites (www.thisisplymouth.co.uk, www.thisisexeter.co.uk, and www.thisisdevon.co.uk)

I did a search for Devon Flag, and on each one, up popped the same article from 'Cornishman and WMN writer' who gave some coverage of the BBC Devon Flag poll back on 10 September.

It seemed a reasonable write up - although he waffled on a bit too much about Cornwall.

For those of us who have seen some of the more derogatory interchanges about Devon (most recently on the BBC Cornwall web site discussion on Cornish Independence) it is nice to hear a voice of reason from someone west of the Tamar.

By the way Kerswell, any luck with the newspapers yet?

Allow me to clarify our position if I may...

First of all, our - that is to say The MrFlag Network's - opinion is entirely irrelevant to the choice you make. We freely admit that our opinions are commercially biased.

However in our experience only simple, economically reproduced flags become successful in today's world. We see it time and again all around the World. It isn't JUST about cost - simple designs are more easily recognised (and the detail in a crest can't be seen when a flag is 20 feet off the ground anyway) - but cost IS a factor.

Yes of course there ARE complicated flags which are also popular, but none of these are new - and they're popular despite being complicated, not because of it. The Union Jack itself (which, when sewn, is made up of 31 different shape/size pieces of material) is one of the hardest flags of all. But the current version is 201 years and 10 months old - and it wasn't widely used to begin with believe me.

We are flagmakers, and we'll make ANY flag for which there's a demand - and the level of demand affects the price every bit as much as how hard it is to make.

Regards - and good luck with the vote
MrFlag
[email protected]

Fellow conspirators.

An update.

I have submitted a request to the WMN team to run a feature/vote on the flag - I did this last weekend.

I followed up with a phone call - but the lady I spoke to was not aware of our request, and gave me the impression that the possible stories are distributed to various writers - and she didn't know who was handling ours.

She indicated that staff had been on training early in the week, and hence the delay, but no doubt somebody would get back to me soon - if they were interested.

That was Wednesday.

No response to date - so I have resubmitted the suggestion (in slightly more pleading terms), and will follow up again by phone. This time I will endeavour to actually contact somebody who is handling our story (perhaps it is the Cornishman that Ozzie Exile refers to).

Speak to you soon

Kerswell

I agree with the idea of holding the newspaper vote before commiting to any of the designs, if that turns out to be possible (fingers crossed) would it help do you think if we all emailed the paper?
Maybe MrFlag could try for the paper vote too, it'd be good publicity for both our causes no?
OK then, read yas later.
PS nice one Kerswell.

Devonian's idea of all of us emailing the WMN is a good one - but perhaps we should wait to see if Kerswell's second attempt gets results.

Plus - we need him/her to tell us where to send our emails.

As for Mr Flag - It very much depends on them. I suspect that they might be happy to be linked to a campaign - but not to drive it.

Have a good weekend

Firstly,

Thanks to BBC Devon for some of the 360 degree pictures. The ones of Dartmoor (especially) are spectacular.

You guys may also be interested, but since I saw a reference to 'Wessex' on the correspondence (from Plymouth Exile I think) I went to pay the Wesex Society website a visit.

Whilsyt I am sure they are well meaning, they seek to lump Devon )but stangely not Cornwall) into a Wessex regiojn running from the london suburbs to Plymouth.

Now, as far as I am concerned, this is rubbish. Fine for them, but it isn't Devon.

Plymouth Exile (and others), you may have some energy left after your confrontation wit our Cornish bretheren to spend some tim ewith this misguided representatives from our east.

It takes a couple of logon screens, but no great effort.

Do you really believe Devon is part of some amorphous 'Wesex' group speading all the way to London.

I have no problem with their society, but inclusing Devon in in seems a touch extreme. Your thoughts please?

Coref

>> As for Mr Flag - It very much depends on them. I suspect that they might be happy to be linked to a campaign - but not to drive it. <<

It's entirely up to you. If you want us to drive a campaign we will (and can), if you want to link us to it we'll be happy, and if you'd prefer us to have no connection with it at all you'll hear not a murmer of complaint.

It depends how much of a noise you want to make.

Fellow conspirators,

A further update.

I sent in the request the Westcountry Publications again, and followed up with a phone call this morning.

I spoke to a Sue Carroll (of the WMN) who told me that I may have been using the wrong email address, 'cos she hadn't heard of a Devon Flag request. Now why couldn't the first person I spoke to (last week) have told me that?

When I explained it to her she sounded interested (mostly after I mentioned the 400 votes), and she said to send the info to her (which I have now done) and she would consider it. She seemed to favour the WMN, rather than 'those local evening papers' (like the Herald) so clearly she is in the WMN camp.

She was a little unsure whether a Devon Flag would be of interest to the whole WMN - because it does cover Cornwall and west Dorset/Somerset, and I have asked her to pass it onto the Herald, Express and Echo etc.. if the WMN can't oblige.

I will let you know more.

By the way, I think Coref missed when he guided us toward the Wessex Society to address the Wessex Regional Authority suggestion - I have seen their web-site and it seems a small discussion forum with about 35 members.

Nevertheless it seemed to attract a raving english nationalist loony, who I don't think is a regular, but called himself 'Happy Hatchet Man' or something. The performance was somewhat entertaining - and rather sad. I got the impression that we would be one of the first to go 'up against the wall - come the revolution' and that he would have had to wipe the spittle off his screen by the time he finished.

Anyhow - its seems the real contact point should be the Wessex Regionalists, who are liked to a Wessex Constitutional Convention.
The web-site suggests Devon be included in an 8 county definition of Wessex but encourages feedback as to which counties should be in - or out.

I have made my (always polite) contribution, and I suggest that we leave the Wessex Society to deal with Mr Hatchet alone.

I think it'd be great to have MrFlag "in on it", might help add a bit more sway to our cause eh?

We'll just have to wait see how Kerswell gets on with the papers first though.

Kerswell,

Sounds like the usual incompetance concerning WMN and the Flag. Thanks for your efforts; we will get there in the end.

Concerning the Wessex Society, although I now agree that they are only small fry, they are more involved in the Wessex Region movement than Nick Xylas is admitting. It would appear that the Wessex Society (together with the Wessex Regionalists and the Wessex Constitutional Convention) is one of the co-authors of a document entitled 'The Case for Wessex'.

You can access this file at the URL

[Unsuitable link removed by Moderator]
Notice who signed it.

Having said that, I agree that it is the big fish we need to go for.


Plymouth Exile

As my link was removed (see above), I should tell you that the document was:

"The Case for Wessex" - A joint response to the White Paper on regional governance by the Wessex Constitutional Convention, Wessex Society and the Wessex Regionalists

It was signed, on behalf of the Wessex Society, by none other than Nick Xylas.

The document was advocating a Wessex Assembly, including Devon.


Plymouth Exile

I havnt read the paper in question but i was just wondering if Cornwall is to be included in this Wesses regional assembly, if so im fairly certain they'd have a few things to say to this Wessex society.

I was of the belief that Neither Devon nor Cornwall were ever and integral part of the Wessex region, surely this would give us some sort of right to say if we want to be in it or not.

Personally i still cant see us avoiding this seven county assembly unless we can put forward a united case with Cornwall, which is unlikely since it seems to me (from the posting board on the BBC Cornwall site) that the majority of those who associate themselves actively with the "senedh kernow movement" seem to be Blind to any suggestions other than their own propaganda.
Maybe they'd appreciate more some sort of Plymouth Argyle alliance (if they ever start winning again!)

Devonian,

Couldn't agree more!!!

I suspect that the most likely outcome is that the whole regional assembly idea will fizzle out. Cornwall has no hope of a seperate region - otherwise we will likely have claims from Cumbria, Northumbria, and Rutland.

If it does look like getting up, then Devon would have a much better case - based on population alone.

The other likely outcome is that it will just happen anyway - and Devon and Cornwall will get it whether it likes it or not. I am not optimistic - it seems to be a case of more coin extracted through the nostril if you ask me.

If Devon could get Cornwall to join with it I think we would have a chance, but I agree, based on the BBC Cornwall website the chances are slim - if only because the emptiest vessels are making the most noise.

Now as to this Wessex nonsense , we can try a couple of things.

1 I encourage you (and others) to register your protest by emailing them on

[email protected]

and letting them know your thoughts.

2 I did suggest the Wessex Society might be another 'discussion group' to join. Go look at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wessexsociety/

They don't sound too bad a mob - except for "Mr Hatchet Bovver Boy" or whatever (who needs to increase his medication), but Plymouth Exile suspects they are not as conciliatory as they seem. ????

3 We need to encourage a debate or vote on the Wessex/Devon issue.

If BBC Cornwall can run a discussion on "Do you feel Cornish, British or both?', I would hope BBC Devon could ask 'Do you feel Devonian, Wessaxen, British or...?'

Come on BBC!!!!

And as for your suggestion about Argyle - they are a perfect example that the Tamar is no cultural boundary. I know people who come up from Camborne for matches, and others that come down from Barum.
Now - I can't see the Welsh going over to Bristol - can you?

Go the 'Gyles!

Devonian, Coref (et al),

I also think that the likelihood of getting our own assembly is very remote, despite the increasing evidence that that is what the people of Devon want. One only has to read the Government White Paper to see that it will amount to a choice between the South West Region (as defined by the Government) and nothing at all. On balance, I think that a rejection vote would be best (as the Cornish are almost bound to do), as at least then Devon would be no worse off than it is now. If we then protest that we want proper devolution, they may just sit up and listen. By voting for the South West Region, they will assume that we are perfectly happy with that proposal.

To answer Devonian's question, the Cornish are not included in the proposed Wessex Region, because the Wessex bunch see them as being beyond Wessex (west of the Tamar). We are currently trying to educate them that the Wessex border is not at the Tamar (as the Cornish Nationalists would like them to think it is), and that Devon is not an integral part of Wessex. The reason I suspect that the Wessex Society (or at least Nick Xylas) is not entirely neutral on the subject of a Wessex Regional Assembly, is that he is a co-author of:

The Case for Wessex - A joint response to the White Paper on regional governance by the Wessex Constitutional Convention, Wessex Society and the Wessex Regionalists

The words 'regional governance' give it away. If their interest was only in a cultural region, why did they get involved? Also, a Google search has shown that the Wessex Society (and particularly our Mr. Xylas) is closely tied in with the other two organizations. I don't think we need worry about the Wessex Regionalists, as at the last General Election, their two candidates polled less than the Monster Raving Loony Party, and a lot less than Mebyon Kernow. I note that they didn't put up a candidate in a Devon constituency. I wonder why. I will certainly send an E-Mail to the Wessex Constitutional Convention people.

Coref, I don't think that increased medication for Happy Hatchet Boy would work if the hatchet really is embedded in his brain. Don't worry about him; I have eaten people like him for breakfast on the BBC Cornwall Nationalism board. I am glad that Nick Xylas didn't censor my remarks about him, as I have found that it is the best way to deal with his sort.

You may be interested to know that on the BBC Devon Devolution board, I have posed the question: How many Devonians think that Devon should be part of a Wessex Region, stretching from Plymouth to Gloucester and Reading? Get answering guys, so that we can demonstrate to Nick Xylas that Devonians want nothing to do with a Wessex Region, and that it is not just a few activists who think that way.

Incidentally, shouldn't we be posting this sort of topic on the Celtic Devon board? This board is for the Flag. Just a thought.


Plymouth Exile

Fellow flag-wavers,

I have spoken to Sue Carroll at the WMN again this morning (I hadn't received a response from her).

She confirmed she had received the information, and had passed it on to the News Desk. She believed that they were likely to run a story on it (in their Devon editions), probably early next week.

Fingers crossed.

The News Desk should contact me before they go to press.

If they want to talk to someone other than me - is anyone else prepared to talk to them??

Sue's email address is '[email protected]' or email me details at '[email protected]'.

Another update.

I heard nothing from the WMN until yesterday, when I decided to call Sue Carroll again this morning.

She indicated she did not know the status, but would find out and let me know.

No contact yet.

I am beginning to despair. Perhaps give it a last day or so. I would rather they say 'no' if they are not going to run with it, and have said so to Sue. Perhaps we should look to the Sunday Independent or Mr Flag.

By the way Coref, thanks for your earlier help!

I do not bear good tidings.

On Friday I spoke a couple of times to a WMN news reporter (Emma Corlett) about a Devon Flag ballot.

Essentially it seems to be a case of 'not invented here'.

Although interested in a Devon flag in principle, the WMN apparently sees Radio Devon as a competitor and the WMN is unlikely to be interested in organising a ballot on the shortlist already provided because of this.

She indicated the WMN might be more interested in a Devon Flag campaign if a competition was set up involving schools etc.., and if so the designs we have discussed would be candidates.

She indicated she would talk to the editor and get back to me.

In what is turning out to be WMN tradition, she has not yet done so.

Although I will ring her in a day or so if I do not hear back, I suspect we are wasting our time.

My suggestion is that we talk to Mr Flag to see what they can suggest.

Kerswell,

Bad luck, and rather frustrating. Why would BBC Radio Devon be a 'competitor' to the WMN? - except in the very broadest terms.

My vote would be to liaise with mr Flag, so that we can hear what they say, but I would probably try the Sunday Independent.

Although it might be more difficult to get a "Devon" edition, they do use more colour, which we need for the flag debate, and which was always likely to be a problem with the WMN.

As to a campaign involving designs from school children etc... I think that would be good as well. Anything that ends up with a higher profle and popularly supported flag.

However we would probably need Devon County Council (and Plymouth/Torbay) behind such a campaign. (I have always found the DCC helpful).

Mr Flag might have some ideas here as well.

I think a county wide schhol competition is a great way of not only generating frsh new ideas and designs but also raising the profile of our cause. So i reckon the DCC would proabably be the people to talk to rather that Mr Flag, but maybe it could be used as an incentive to competitors that if there design wins then they can get a proper one off Mr Flag (assuming that its a viable design).
Goog stuff.