h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I would also be very interested in getting bumper stickers with the falgs colours.

Davyth

I notice on the Mr Flag website you can order text to be added. This may be an opportunity to have Football team names added to it.
I am an Exeter City fan. Before it is seen by Grecian fans as an Argyle symbol I think we should try and get a mention on all the clubs website. My only concern at the moment is that because City play in red, some elements of the fan base my view the flag with suspicion and rather keep with the St George flag, purely for the colours rather than any thing else. I think if we get the clubs backing, all 4 of them, (Tiverton Town!) it might be better. I have ordered a flag and next time I'm at a game I'll bring it along and hang it out for all to see! I like the Rugby idea, but also think hotels, restaurants, pubs, sailing clubs, tourism organisation etc need to be informed. I work in tourism and will spread the word with colleagues.

Davyth

By the way I am a true Devonian and think the idea of putting Devon's present coat of arms on a plain background a ridiculous notion. Its beyond belief and sounds like the mutterings of someone who obviously has no interest in the rich cultural identity Devon has.

Davyth

I've been away from this debate for far too long! I'm glad the design finally selected was the version I favoured all along - and I'm a Gulls fan, by the way. I'm going to go and order a flag from Mr. Flag right away...

Please let me know if and when bumper stickers are available.


Parrferris

Davyth (et al)

I agree that it would be preferable to have the Exeter, Torquay, Plymouth and Tiverton soccer fans and clubs behind this design.

By the way Davyth (and others who support Exeter City) good luck with the run in to the end of the season. It looks like a few fingernails will bite the dust in the next few weeks! Fingers crossed.

However I think it would be a braver man than I that took a green white and black flag along to St James Park and started waving it around in the Cowshed (as it was known in my youth). I would certainly have an extra helping of Weetabix for breakfast before I did that.

Perhaps with ECFC emblazoned across it you might well get away with it - and I would suggest that if you were to do this, do the ECFC as a single large RED letter in each quadrant. I have roughed up a copy, and it looks okay (but I think any text on the flag, in any colour, detracts from the flags appearance).

Any posting on the ECFC website would also have to be carefully worded, as you would need to make sure you state you are a City fan - and are recognised as such.

I am sure that the bulk of soccer supporters would differentiate between the flag of Devon and Plymouth Argyle (after all they already differentiate between the red and white of the St George flag and Exeter City's colours), but there are always a few fools!

However, to my mind though we shouldn't focus on the soccer - at least not first up - there are still a minority of soccer fans with a 'mentally challenged' attitude (within all clubs) as evidenced by the earlier posting here and by some of the (rather pathetic) petty interchanges I have seen elsewhere between rival fans (nothing to do with the flags these mind).

So, I think we should start with other areas, and get it established first.

One way is with bumper stickers.

Plymouth Exile and Devonian have asked that I show a suggested design for the bumper sticker on my website.

You can see it at

http://users.senet.com.au/~dewnans/bumperstickers.html

There is also a small 'B' on the flag webpage which links to this (just beneath and to th eright of the flag design)... in case you forget.

Post you responses here (rather than to me)

Good on you Parferris!

I have heard good reports on the quality of the flags (mine is still in the mail!)

Thanks! I'm going to have to go and check whether the transaction worked as I got a 404 error page right at the crucial moment.

Gosh, it is busy right now.

Whilst posting my first message today I saw Parferris's message, and whilst responding to that I received an email from the BBC.

They are interested in following up on the flag debate - so 'watch this space'.

I have provided them with an update and hopefully they will contact me once they have reviewed it.

PF,

The Mr Flag website looks like its up and running and okay to me.

They have had a few technical problems recently (changing servers etc..) which I know caused them some grief, but I understood they were over that.

OE

I love the bumper sticker design. I'll have 10!

Davyth

OK, I've just posted something about the new flag on the ecfc website, I await the responses! I stressed the significance of the colours and what the colours meant etc etc....
Will let you know the response. I think any TQFC fans should try and raise the profile of the flag on their own sites.
Has anyone written to county hall, distrcit councils about using the new flag?

Davyth

I have now updated my 'bumper stickers' webpage to include 2 variations on the theme as requested.

Same website address!

I think Davyth's visit to the ECFC website was brave. I quickly looked in and it all looked rather quiet. I think one other contributor responded to Davyth's posting, and apart from a comment about a 'green rag' it wasn't too disparaging.

However I did receive a couple of email myself o/night which I suspect were website visits initiated by that posting.

One I deleted without reading (the subject line led me to conclude I would be wasting my time opening it), and the second did not comment on the flag directly, but suggested that Devon didn't have China Clay mines or a famous Rugby Union team.

I referred that reader to (1) Lee Moor (2) The achievment of Devon in reaching the County Championship Final at Twickenham 2 or 3 years back. In fact Devon are 9th seed this year. Cornwall are 4th, but Devon beat them in this years Tamar Cup, held at Barum.

The 'This is Devon' website has a few thumbnail pictures of that match by the way

I still think Davyth would be unwise to take the flag to a City home match - its not the right forum to introduce this! If you must go - for your own personal safety I suggest add some red letters. However the Devon flag with letters (in red, or white or with the initials of any team) will not look half as it good as the flag does does unadorned.

Also Kaolin (china clay) deposits in the Bovey basin around Kingsteignton!
I'm in Ireland at the moment so it won't be in Exeter for a while anyhow. The peron who called it a green rag actually lives in St Blazey in Kernow! You would have thought he would have more sense!

Davyth

Davyth,

Sorry, with respect to the China Clay I had forgotten about Bovey.

On the other side its a pity that the Cornish contributor didn't know better. I suspect he was the same dude who suggested to me that Devon didn't have China Clay Pits or a famous rugby team.

Hmmm!!! Perhaps I had an irate Cornish Argyle fan rather than an irate ECFC fan.

Well, perhaps a quiet reminder about who won this year's Tamar Cup may quieten that flapping mouth!

Davyth, Ozzie Exile et al,

Not strictly correct. The clay deposits of the Bovey Basin are Ball Clay. Although Ball Clay is similar to China Clay (Kaolin), there are differences. China Clay deposits occur in situ where the feldspar in the granite has decomposed, e.g. at Lee Moor (S.W. Dartmoor) and the St. Austell granite areas. Ball Clay is a sedimentary clay, consisting partly of kaolinite washed down into the Bovey Basin by river action, and mixed with other clays.

Concerning the Cornish person who claimed that Devon did not have any China Clay Mines, I find that this is typical. Devonians tend to know quite a bit about Cornwall, but many Cornish people seem to be remarkably ignorant about their neighbour Devon. Look how many of them still regard Devonians as being Anglo-Saxons, despite all the evidence to the contrary. This is the result of many years of being brainwashed I'm afraid.

Back to the main subject of the car stickers, I still prefer design 2, with the flag mounted on a pale grey plinth (representing Dartmoor granite) and the name 'DEVON' inscribed on the granite in blue (representing Devon's maritime connections).

Plymouth Exile

I think the bumper sticker designs are good.

Any will do for me, but I think my favourite is #2 as well.

I didn't know China Clay could be so technical.

Just for the record, my favourite is 2 as well.

However I do think we need to check out prices. The extra colours (blue/grey) may cost, and if we want these sold at petrol stations etc.. the sales price will have to be thought of.

How are you going Davyth?? I would expect you would have had a few goos exchanges on the City site by now.

As I said earlier, I don't think its the right forum. Whilst on a soccer website people think through their scarves (when they think at all). Those same people may be far more reasonable when they are talking down the pub, at work, at the Rugger etc.....

By the way, Is the Bovey ball clay/kaolin deposit white? The whole thing was it matched the white colour of the flag!!

Davyth,

I have looked in at the ECFC site discusion about the Devon Flag, but as I am not registered, I have not contributed. There seems to be a variety of differing views, but underlying these there appears to be one common misconception, i.e. that to have any standing, the flag needs to be official. It might be worth pointing out on the ECFC site that very few of the British county or regional flags are official and that includes the well known (but unofficial) Cornish (St. Piran) Flag. Some people also seem to think that the flag has to be the same as the County Coat of Arms. Again the example of Cornwall can be used to show that this is not the case.

Plymouth Exile

I applaud the idea of a flag for Devon. However, the poll was unrepresentative and tiny and in no way reflects opinion county wide. Indeed the BBC admits as much and says it was just for fun.

If you'd genuinely wanted a flag for Devon that was acceptable to the people of Devon why didn't you canvas opinion properly, using this initial poll and the winning design as a springboard for a genuine and wider discussion rather than pretending to speak for us all? A county wide debate would have brought the people of Devon together and given the exercise much more credibility. As it stands most Devonians will reject this exercise as the well intentioned, but misguided conceit of a few.

Maybe there is still time for a rethink, but by rushing ahead, I feel you may have missed an opportunity.

Researcher 224195,

I am glad that you applaud the idea of a Devon Flag. However, you claim that the poll was unrepresentative. Those of us who participated went to great lengths to ensure that it was as representative as it could possibly be. Firstly, the BBC Devon site was used to request the submission of designs. The subject was discussed on local radio and TV, and also in at least one local newspaper. Several months were allowed for submissions.

BBC Devon then kindly agreed to host a vote on its web site. At least two months were allowed for voting, but when the poll closed, there was some suspicion of double voting (which the BBC Devon site had no means of guarding against), so a method of securing a second ballot was sought. The most obvious solution was via a ballot in Devon newspapers, but despite persistent requests, none were interested in hosting such a ballot. In the end, it was agreed that a ballot should be set up on a Devon related web site owned by a participant in the flag design phase (whose own design had been rejected early on), with special provision being made to prevent double voting. In order to provide maximum publicity for the second ballot, links to the ballot site were posted on the BBC Devon site. About 300 people voted which, as a proportion of the total Devon population, is considerably higher than is used nationwide in opinion polls. The whole process took about a year to complete, so I don't think it is fair to say that it was rushed. With the local TV and Radio publicity, why is it that you have only now appeared here to criticise our efforts to obtain a fair poll?

Incidentally, you may be interested (and surprised) to know that the well known black and white Cornish flag was not voted for in any free ballot of the Cornish people and is also an unofficial flag; in fact most County and Regional flags are unofficial.

Plymouth Exile