Conversation:

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I was trying to politely say 'Let the sub-eds deal with Updates' as they are very different from the normal PR Entries. They have to be fully polished within the Update thread as they by-pass the normal sub-editing system, and are not put up for 'recommendation' by a Scout.

Please read <./>RF21</.> where you will also find this paragraph:

'It is vital that all editing is done before the entry is accepted for the update, as it will not pass onto a Sub-editor for final proofing like any other Entry that passes through Peer Review. That means that all the punctuation and grammar must be spot on, that links and GuideML be correctly inserted and that - to be quite blunt - the update is perfect.'

I hope you find this of some assistance.

As it's not me who's updating an entry, I'm not the one needing assistance. The writer of the entry in question probably has little idea of who is who, and the advice was - let's face it - contradictory. The sub-ed involved in that thread has since changed his original stance on the picture for instance. It's not a criticism, I fully appreciate that volunteers put time and effort into doing a good job for the guide.

Nonetheless, the volunteers (scouts vs sub-ed basically) involved don't seem very sure themselves about the criteria for updating. It wasn't a criticism just a hint to all be talking the same language.

Note that I was very cautious in my first post. But after the various developments on that thread, it seemed better to raise the matter here rather than have any appearance of squabbling in PR.

No problem, I'll leave the thread alone and let those who know best take care of it.

Galaxy Babe and Gnomon are sub-editors. As a Scout, I wouldn't normally have ventured into an Update, but I was concerned about you and Nbb being in there and giving advice which might, or might not, be relevant ie:

In normal PR threads not using Guide ML isn't an issue. In Updates, it is.

Which is why I was asking you both to slow down until the sub-editors could get in there to assist.

I don't really understand the reason for your last post.
Here, I suggested that the people involved clarified the position re updates to avoid putting off a newcomer.
You are referring to your 'whoa' comment in the PR thread apparently.

I think, if you take a 2nd look at the thread, you'll find that (post 3) I linked to the previous thread and said (post 4) the entry/update was interesting.

After Gnomon's rather terse post 6, I pointed out that the picture had a breast on it and breasts wern't mentioned in the text.

*After* the writer had mentioned using other photos I mentioned copyright infringement (post 13).

Post 15 was your 'whoa' post.

I again pointed out the 'breast' (post 16). I'll admit, I had the impression that nbb and I were the only ones who had actually looked at both texts.

In post 17, you said nbb and I were giving good advice.

And I haven't said anything substantial since (a friendly word about not worrying about 'internal clarifications'). I never mentioned Guide ML and, frankly, I have the impression that you're more annoyed by the fact that I posted here than by anything that was said on that thread.

At least my post here led to http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/RF21 being posted on the thread which will help clarify matters (something I said I wasn't experienced enough to do on my very first post on the previous thread). I can't help thinking that it would have been better had it been posted earlier.

I don't think we should be telling newbies to do updates, plain and simple.

An update is more complicated than a new entry, and shouldn't be attempted by someone not yet familiar with the writing style and so on, because it doesn't get subbed.

So the way forward would probably be to encourage them to write a few different entries of their own first, before they try to update something.

As for recommending that something like A60246092 be used for an update... It's obviously not suitable. That's just confusing the newbie.

Thank you! It's lovely to see your comment Mala I was thinking just the same myself. I find that I am rapidly becoming a grouchy old Scout. All I seem to be saying is 'Please take this out of PR!' and so on.

I know what you mean. It's hard not to sound arrogant when you really *do* know better how it's meant to go...

the bonus of being an ex scout, I don't 'have' to say that anymore

Indeed. I've stopped nitpicking too, and am enjoying PR much more than I was

yes, I saw your last post! It made me smile! But then I had to be mean and tell them to read the guidelines...

Heh, I can smell 'em a mile off.