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|   | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle | | Post: 1
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in reading the questions and answers in the topic for this week about nuclear power, it seemed no one really brought up solar as a viable power supply.  but it is. i think if every building's roof was covered in solar panels, a lot of our power problems would be solved. i dont have statistics. does anyone else?
oh and i heard also if governments used solar power then that would lower the cost of it for the rest of us.
My goodness, you should see what our Federal Government here in Australia thinks about the whole issue. Our PM has suggested that between 25 and 40 Nuclear Power plants be built to cater for future needs. Who will build them and where is just a minor detail according to our PM, and he wants to store the waste somewhere in the desert.
We are blessed with all sorts of renewable options here, Solar, Wind, etc, but our PM is a man of the 1950's and we will give him and his party the heave ho soon.
Peeb
|  | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
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i heard he was buddybuddy with bush. 
We think he is Bush's love child, or at least a clone of a clown....
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by Mu Beta
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| | Post: 5
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" i think if every building's roof was covered in solar panels, a lot of our power problems would be solved"
Money, money, money.
That's why solar power will not, for the foreseeable future, be a major contributor. It costs about 30 times more to tile your roof in solar panels than to buy and hoist a wind turbine.
B
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by shelleychapman
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| | Post: 6
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I don't really see why there has to be just one green solution. Surely a combination of solar, wind and hydroelectric power (and there are probably more too) would be more economically viable than continuing to either dig up our earth or storing unstorable, harmful elements like nuclear waste.
Not being an engineer or biologist ...
But then I'm not Bush's lackey either (regarding John Howard)
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 7
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in my previous post i said: "i heard also if governments used solar power then that would lower the cost of it for the rest of us." its a fact that government contracts lower the price of the materials they use because they buy so much of it that the materials become cheaper to produce because the producers can buy THEIR supplies at bulk rates.
also... some communities already have in place systems where the excess of the power you have garnered from solar or wind or hydro is bought by the community to be used elsewhere.
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by Mu Beta
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| | Post: 8
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"its a fact that government contracts lower the price of the materials they use because they buy so much of it that the materials become cheaper to produce because the producers can buy THEIR supplies at bulk rates."
But not by a factor of 30. You're only really showing a limited appreciation of supply and demand: the labour and machining costs are pretty big, regardless of bulk material supply. Face it, solar panels are prohibitively expensive.
"some communities already have in place systems where the excess of the power you have garnered from solar or wind or hydro is bought by the community to be used elsewhere"
Yes, we call it the national grid, and the UK Government does offer a sizeable incentive for you to hook up your own wind turbine or solar panels to the grid. Sad truth of the matter is, our weather just isn't reliable enough for you to bank on it.
B
There is no way here in Oz that the government would be involved in building and operating Nuclear Power stations. It would be left to the private sector, like everything else here.
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 10
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mu beta, i forgot to mention that another known fact is that when there is more demand the labour and machining becomes more streamlined and cost effective (Fords assembly line)
and isnt it interesting that some of the poorest folk on the planet have solar... back-to-the-landers and hippie types. its because they have found if you invest money in... oh... say... whole food... you may pay more at the market but when you get it home it lasts longer because it has more nutrition in it... so in the long run its more cost effective than lugging home 8 loaves of white bread that doesnt feed you but may interfere with your health. oh dont get me started haha.
you said: >>Yes, we call it the national grid, and the UK Government does offer a sizeable incentive for you to hook up your own wind turbine or solar panels to the grid. Sad truth of the matter is, our weather just isn't reliable enough for you to bank on it.<<
oh i was talking about the world economy not just the UK. is that okay? (looks around at the others) H2G2 is a world forum isnt it? i actually thot it was a galaxy forum when i came in... ...but i will settle for world for now....
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 11
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Peeb said:
>>There is no way here in Oz that the government would be involved in building and operating Nuclear Power stations. It would be left to the private sector, like everything else here.<<
and Peeb... you couple that with bush's interest in australia and we know where that is going eh? beware beware
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by Mu Beta
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 12
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Right, let's tackle some points here:
1) Solar panels rely on extremely pure silicon. The purification process is long, complicated and - due to spiralling energy costs (ironic, isn't it?) - unlikely to get any cheaper. In addition, there is a much larger industry - computer chips - that has much more influence over the cost of raw materials.
2) People you describe as 'back-to-the-landers and hippie types', in my experience, are not the poorest folk on the planet. They tend to be deluded yuppies who have sold up house and home and have hefty cash reserves. I live not too far away from a genuine community of travellers/gypsies or whatever they like to be called these days, and their main source of energy is a box of matches and some dry firewood.
Without being too patronising, I think you know that the poorest folk on the planet live in Africa, a continent not renowned for use of solar energy. The only country so far to have used solar energy profitably is Australia, the eighth most lucrative nation on the planet, and (not coincidentally) one of the sunniest.
3) Your 'whole food' analogy is infantile, inappropriate and wrong on so many levels. How exactly does sliced white interfere with one's health? By lugging it home? I thought that was valuable artery-freeing exercise.
4) Yes, h2g2 welcomes posters from all over the world. However, there is a tacit understanding that we are a UK-centric community (in much the same way that the HHGTTG books were very UK-centric), and if you took the trouble to read the page that we have posted to, you will see that much of the intended discussion is aimed at UK readership.
5) If you learned to use punctuation and capital letters appropriately, your posts would be easier to read and easier for me to take seriously.
B
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The good thing is fluffy, that we have an election due this year, and Howard is a gonner. And there doesn't appear to be any interest from the private sector yet to build any nuclear plants. No government would dare offer them any financial assistance, the backlash would be incredible. We are blessed with abundant types of alternate energy, including natural gas, but while Big Oil calls the shots the status quo will remain for quite a while.
btw, Mu Beta, you seem to be taking a bit of an elitist position with your "UK Centrist" comment. Climate Change and alternative energy supplies are a world wide issue, after all, and developments and advances need to be shared world wide.
Peeb
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by Mu Beta
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 15
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Oh, I don't deny for a minute that these are a global problem, although I have a cynical line on climate change. (A8906790)
My above comment was simply a reaction to the fact that fluffy was looking for a cheap way to undermine my argument.
B
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 16
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peeb... thats good to know!! good on ya!
and mu betta??  you seem to be just looking for a fight.... i am looking for a solution.
and everyone else? i dont know alot about all this stuff so what i do is try to instigate converse so i and others can learn from those of you who do!!! PLUS... it gets documented in The Guide!!
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by Mu Beta
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 17
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I'm not looking for a fight, just stating a reasonable and factual rebuttal to your arguments.
And, seeing as you have just admitted yourself that you don't know much about it, why are you being so aggressive and stubborn with your approach?
B
 Mu for my misunderstanding. I agree with you on your line on Climate Change to the extent that it is more to do with natural cycles than human impact. But I do believe that we should at least minimize the human impact on pollution levels. I go back to my early years working in the local steelworks, where it was a typical industry belching out fumes left, right and centre. Now, of course, heavy industry in the West have had pollution controls forced upon them and have developed technology and spent a lot of money to combat pollution. It's a shame that countries like India and China do not force,(or allow?), their industries to install pollution controls. The effect on their own environment must be horrendous, and unfortunately the will of their people does not hold much sway over their governments to enforce any legislation on these matters.
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 19
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hahahahahaha!
>>I'm not looking for a fight, just stating a reasonable and factual rebuttal to your arguments.<< ....like using the words infantile, aggressive and stubborn... and cheap...undermin(ing) to describe my behaviour here? me thinkest not mu beta.
you have been on this site for a long time and i have seen you wax eloquently in conversations about newbies on how its nice to welcome them and not put them down and yadayadayada... albeit.... you should know better than to resort to attacking the arguer rather than the argument... its just.... cheap haha oh... and contraproductive too.
now... please... can we just get on with the discussion at hand and try to be civil about it?
| | Subject: SOLAR POWER is the green solution to our power problems
Posted Jun 2, 2007 by fluffykerfuffle
This is a reply to this Posting.
| | Post: 20
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oh sorry... i got confused with contraindicative... which is what i was thinking your personal remarks' to me are in this problem solving discussion... contraproductive per se isnt really a word ...unproductive is.
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