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|   | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by eloisa
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Did it? Gosh, it's a good thing you're so clever!!
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by astrolog
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| | Post: 26942
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"The bible talks of 'the increase of wickedness' as we enter the 'last days'. Observing current affairs (and an increase in wickedness) makes me wonder whether we are in the 'last days' or 'end times'"
There have been far worse times in the past. We are angels compared to some earlier cultures. We just here about it more today.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by astrolog
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Hear not here, for Pete's sake.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by astrolog
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http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/horgan06/horgan06_index.html "THE TEMPLETON FOUNDATION: A SKEPTIC'S TAKE" by John Horgan.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by Fathom
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| | Post: 26945
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Mikey,
There seems to be some agreement that there was a 'mitochondrial Eve'
viz: A703199 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
and a 'Y-chromosomal Adam' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
Don't get too excited however as they seemed to have lived about 50,000 years apart. Clearly these common ancestors do not relate to the biblical idea of Adam and Eve.
F
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by Researcher 173821
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y'know, for a moment there, as I scanned the page, I thought you were seriously referencing Viz as a source in support of your argument Fathom! 
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by Fathom
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I'm happy to quote common sense from wherever I find it, Icky. 
F
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 2, 2008 by michae1
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| | Post: 26948
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Thanks for the links Fathom..very interesting.
mikey2
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted May 3, 2008 by michae1
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| | Post: 26949
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F and emo etc
Some thoughts have occurred to me concerning recent postings here...
There remains a mystery about EXACTLY WHEN humans became 'human', that is to say, became very distinct from the animal world in terms of self-awareness, laughter, crying, worship, discernment of good and evil and so ultimately...moral responsibility.
It seems it would be almost impossible to pin down an exact time (unless of course the Genesis creation account is taken literally). But we can say from our perspective today that at some point, IT HAPPENED.
I recently made mention of Jesus' words, 'Things that cause these little ones to sin are bound to come' (referring to children inevitably losing their innocence, as they grow up, and falling short of God's standards).
Now, here is the interesting correlation: just as it is impossible to pinpoint exactly when in history humans became morally responsible thinking beings, so it is very difficult, when observing how an innocent child has grown into a morally responsible adult, to say exactly WHEN the transformation took place; for a transformation it is.
Its a fascinating subject. I've always been slightly embarrassed of the biblical creation account before because it comes across as far-fetched...but I now feel that there's a lot more to it than can be summarily dismissed.
mikey2
you are right it is a facinating subject thanks for that!!
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Sep 2, 2008 by Ragged Dragon
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| | Post: 26951
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So...
Fact, faction, fiction?
--
Mine are definitely fact
--
Jez
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Sep 8, 2008 by astrolog
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In your reality they are fact but not in mine, Jez.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Oct 5, 2008 by sayamalu
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| | Post: 26953
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<<There remains a mystery about EXACTLY WHEN humans became 'human', that is to say, became very distinct from the animal world in terms of self-awareness, laughter, crying, worship, discernment of good and evil and so ultimately...moral responsibility.>>
Mikey, may I suggest that you're making a fundamental mistake here? If people are looking vainly for that instant in time, that moment when human-ness was set off like a spark, or a bolt of lightning, there's a reason the search has yielded nothing.
Life doesn't work that way. Contrary to Genesis where life started like turning on a light switch or in old movies where a captured lightning bolt and lots of cool apparatus cause Victor Frankenstein to scream, "It's alive! It's alive!", there IS no single instant.
It's a gradual process. There is a level of self-awareness in primates for example. Gorillas in laboratory conditions recognise themselves in photographs and have even been known to seem to be concerned with their own appearance.
Apes also laugh, cry, and appear to demonstrate remorse.
But this is not restricted to primates. Anyone who has had a dog, knows that the animal is capable of anger, love, loyalty. Even guilt or remorse. The phrase "hangdog expression" is a direct reference to a typically canine demonstration of low-level remorse. Moral responsibility? I'v had a dog who took very seriously his self-imposed task of guarding my niece's playpen from other kids who would try to take her toys.
And to suggest that the inclination to worship is a defining characteristic of humanity is an insult to those who don't worship. Yes, it is restricted to humans. To certain humans.
Ditto with the discernment of good and evil. Try to get any three people, even on this thread, for example, to agree on what defines good and evil.
No, "humanity" evolved in a slow process by tiny increments punctuated by rare but significant beneficial mutations that added to the total and moved the process forward.
At some point, perhaps a critical mass of intelligence and socialisation was reached and everything toward which we had evolved came together and resulted in the development of civilisation. But don't get carried away with the idea that it happened quickly; that explosion took perhaps a hundred thousand years to bring us to today. That may be the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms, but for those of us who actually live in it, it is slow to the point of imperceptibility.
There is nothing that differentiates us qualitatively from the other animals on the planet; the differences are purely quantitative. And not all that much in terms of quantity, really. Consider that we share over 98% of a chimpanzee's DNA. We just represent a different branch, albeit an arguably more successful branch of evolution.
The recent National Geographic about the conflicts between Neanderthals and modern humans was fascinating, and touched on these topics.
TRiG.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Oct 6, 2008 by sayamalu
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We don't get those in as timely a fashion where I live.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Dec 27, 2008 by SuperFroodOwenThomas
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| | Post: 26956
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The basic ceremonies in christian religion are founded mostly on Pagen ceremonies which to me speaks volumes, they used these incorperated to the near non existant ceremonies but consistant fear lectures to pull the pagen communitys in the fold. I believe in god, i just feel somwhereit has got lost in translation.I'd like to think there is only one god, and it is whoever you choose to belive in. anything that makes you feel better is good for you imo, and it is the Belief itself that matters.
Fear mongering into one or the other is a capitol(money) issue, and it was a land and power issue long before that, it is an escuse, a disgusting one at that, to take another human life being without fear or reprisal, or even for muslim fanatics, a glorious afterlife with virgins in abundance. The fact that two of the major religions in constant conflict hold laws against killing, are both guilty of in times past and seemingly to the present day (with west vs east), killing each other. This to me says that whilst there may be a god, the ones speaking for him/her are hypocrites and frauds, who have used their power over the common good natured person to keep power for them selves and their followers in anguish of leaving them.
My personal belief is in the world itself, i dont thank god for something the world has provided. I also, belive it or not have a profound belief in people, well to say this is wrong, I have belief in the individual. People are stupid.
To clarify. I think it is the belief that is important, and that whichever god makes u feel that, is the right one.
If this causes offence... tough. Its my opinion and im entitled to it
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| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Dec 30, 2008 by apicado22
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| | Post: 26957
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I am catholic,raised that way. There has been proof beyond doubt that there is a God, who has been watching out for me. However, I have a fascination with other beliefs and have read a lot on buddhism, and agree 100% with the main principle of Buddhism that states "never listen and accept what you are told, but rather prove your own truth." Well, maybe in other terms, but in ways, it says, hold to your beliefs! If you can't be open minded enough to welcome other's views, then don't torture yourself by reading anymore.
Whoever or whatever it is that guides you, follow, believe and grow as a person..to the next step...death or whatever it may be for you.
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Dec 30, 2008 by pedro
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| | Post: 26958
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<<There has been proof beyond doubt that there is a God>>
I sincerely doubt that..
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Dec 31, 2008 by Ragged Dragon
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| | Post: 26959
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I believe, from the context, that the poster is speaking of personal proof, rather than scientific objective proof.
Happy New Year (secular/western calendar) to everyone
--
Jez
| | Subject: I'm gonna raise a mass theological debate here: God; fact, or fiction
Posted Dec 31, 2008 by pedro
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| | Post: 26960
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Well, I certainly wouldn't take a subjective feeling as 'proof' of anything. Not even much in the way of evidence, to be honest.
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