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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
paulh. I'm Lord and master of a fool's Taj Mahal
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I haven't run out of things to say, but my thoughts are more and more off-topic.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
quotes
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>>there was a period in the early 1970's when certain rock'n'roll musicians started to get above themselves and thought they were playing Important Music.

Prog?
A few years ago some people thought (and still seem to think, it seems) that certain rock'n'roll musicians started to get above themselves in that period. However, it's surely irrelevant what the musicians were thinking, it's how much people enjoy the music that's important, and indeed while prog was was once sanctimoniously condemned by certain taste-fascists, it remained popular, and indeed is now enjoying a renaissance.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
paulh. I'm Lord and master of a fool's Taj Mahal
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The twists and turns of popular taste have always been somewhat mysterious, and will probably always be. I enjoyed the pop music of my adolescence, and then moved on. I will always feel nostalgia when I hear it again. Actually, I sing in a chorus that does outreach concerts at nursing homes and assisted living facilities. I've sung medleys from the work of the Beatles, the Monkees, the Beach Boys, and a lot of show tunes, Oscar-winning film songs, and even TV shows. It wasn't until last summer that I realized the themes from "Star Trek" and "I Love Lucy" originally had words. Now I know. erm

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by Online Now
swl - Genetically Modified
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meh. Music died in December 1982. The post-Jam period is shallow and derivative.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
paulh. I'm Lord and master of a fool's Taj Mahal
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1982 was the year when "Cats" arrived on theaters in London and New York. "Little Shop of Horrors" arirved the same year. A few years later, "Les Miserables" took the world by storm. I would hardly call that the death of music. If anything, 1982 was the beginning of a rebirth. For stage music, the seventies were a vast wasteland, with a few exceptions.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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@quotes:

I don't care if I'm a taste fascist. I don't care if prog is undergoing a renaissance. You are quite, quite wrong. And so is everyone else.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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See...it's the Boundaries thing again. Musicians should cultivate a certain easy simplicity. Just play the 'kin notes!

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by Online Now
Solnushka (Foundation)
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Perspective is a wonderful thing. For example, my least favourite composer ever is John Tavener, but this is because I played a piece of his called the Protecting Veil once and it is 45 minutes of the basses doing vibrato on one low note, which is a) boring and b) physically painful after the first five minutes. My tendons have barely recovered even now. The copy of music we had had a doodle of a bass player covered in cobwebs in it from a previous concert too. Dredful man.

On the other hand, I heard it from the front (so to speak) not so long ago, and aside from a slight twinge in my left arm, I decided it's not bad. There's a point to the bass section's agony. However, the jury is still out until I get around to working out if all his pieces are bass player hell or not. You cant respect a composer who can;t write good bass parts some of the time at least.

Blur (incidentally) were a terrible live band. I can say this with quiet confidence as I kept seeing them, for one reason or another. I can never decide if this is what makes them overrated (their albums aren't bad). For example, some of the 70s and 80s Russian bands are excellent musicians and fabulous live. On the other hand, they are none of them cutting edge, musically speaking. So where does that leave them?

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by Online Now
Solnushka (Foundation)
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Oh and the most overrated piece I've ever played was this thing by a modern composer called something like Lutoslowskii (I think he's Polish). The score was unnecessarily full of time changes for the hell of it and whole pages of weird notations which effectively forced everyone to busk, which would have been fine except that in fact we weren't supposed to be busking, but doing something complex in interlocking and definitely structured, so actually writing the damn notes down rather than circles, hyroglyphs and improving quotations would have been helpful. The amount of effort which had to go in for what came out was not worth it.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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Now...I rather like 'The Protecting Veil'. Yes, thinking about it (which I never have until now) I can see that it would be hell for bass players. But then the monotonous drone is somewhat the point. guess not all bass parts can be interestingly twiddly.

LaMonte Young, who taught John Cale of The Velvet Underground, was also an advocate of droning and it shows up in The Velvets. I wonder if Taverner was specifically influenced by Young?

If so...well Brian Eno famously said that only about a thousand people bought the first Velvet Underground album, but every single one of them went out and formed a band. Still - it's probably a little too far fetched to see a straight line connection between John Taverner and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2bzrCCKDwc

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by Online Now
Solnushka (Foundation)
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The droning in the Protecting Veil is supposed to be icon-like. The quality of static and very stylised painting to throw the cello solo into relief. Or something like that. It's hard to concentrate on the musical director's commentary when your arm is on fire.

A good bass part doesn't have to be twiddly. It just has to be necessary. Bass parts in walzes aren't all that and a bag of chips to play, but with out the DOOM you don;t get much of a DUM DUM.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
monkeylord5000
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I'll just slip in a few current musicians, like most Rap musicians, Eminem, Drake, et cetera, um... Kesha, Lady Gaga and those types of people. Are they even popular in the UK though?

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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I think of The Protecting Veil as the aural landscape of an orthodox cathedral - the base as the echoing, cavernous void. A rather obvious comparison, admittedly.

Did you know that Taverner was on the Apple label?

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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@monkey:

I'll defend Eminem. He's actually rather good at what he does.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by Online Now
Solnushka (Foundation)
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Orthodox churches aren't cavernous though. They are small, brightly coloured, rather close caves. It's cold in Russia.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
paulh. I'm Lord and master of a fool's Taj Mahal
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I haven't heard enough John Tavener to have formed an idea of what he's all about. I also get him mixed up with John Taverner, who was a Renaissance composer.

Those of you who remember the Bee Gees, do you think they were overrrated in the 1970s and 1980s? I recall that they were popular, but there also were people who called them overrated even then. I mention them because one of them is critically ill now. If he dies soon, the director of my outreach group will probably have us sing Bee Gees hits at nursing homes. "Staying alive" in particular might be seen as in bad taste. It certainly wasn't helpful in the sdocumentary film "Young at heart." An octogenarian sang "Staying alive," and soon after that he was dead. sadface

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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Bum. I've been spelling him wrong. John Taverner was the early composer. He's Tavener, no R.

Now...I thought Tavener was a Greek Orthodox convert, but I see from teh Wiki he was Russian Orthodox. (Was. Seems he's now moved on to Islam, Hinduism and points beyond.) I did know that his spiritual mentor, Mother Thekla, died last year.

Anyway...I heard singing once in the Alexander Nevsky monastery and it was that effect I meant.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
monkeylord5000
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@Edward

He's decent, he's got some good meaning in his songs and I like a few of them, but I think rap is a bit too overrated by some people.

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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simpost Taverner. Tavener.

Check him out, paulh. He had a brief moment of fame when his music was used at Diana Windsor's funeral. So obviously he's right up there with Elton John.

As seen in the movies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmHkDZe7_48&feature=related

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Subject: Which famous musicians are seriously over-rated?
Posted Apr 16, 2012 by
Edward the Bonobo - Gone.
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@monkey.

See my comment on hip hop (not rap!) on the under-rated thread. smiley

No - not all hip hop is good. What is? But the good stuff is about as good as anything going.

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