|  |
 | | | Subject: Why the prefix
Posted Jul 29, 2012 by Solnushka (Foundation)
This is a reply to this Posting
| | Posting
9
  | | Well, to an extent we just do.
There are patterns though. We don't use 'the' for most countries, but if it is a collection of countries/ states/ isleands and so on we do. The United Kingdom, the United States, The Soviet Union, the Russian Federation, the West Indies and so on (works of mountains too - Mount Everest (one) but the Himalayas (many)). Also, the pattern 'the noun of noun' occurs quite frequently in English, and certain country names follow that pattern (the People's Republic of China).
The exceptions like Ukraine are often ones where either is used (Ukraine or the Ukraine), probably because they don't really fit our patterns, but I find it interesting that allegedly both Ukraine and Gambia are both supposed to mean something like 'border' which would make Ukraine 'the Border of Russia' (The noun of noun'). I think that might be reaching a bit though.
As for the rest, again it's just fixed patterns. No for most towns/ cities (except the Hauge), streets except the High Street (but Main Street), yes for seas, rivers and canals (the Thames, the Pacifc, the Suez), no for squares (Trafalgar), yes for theatres and more tenuously hotels and restaurants.
It might help to know why we use 'the'. It means 'we know which one'. So if I talk about my pets, I'll say, as an intro, 'I have a cat and a dog.' and then once I have established that we know which of the many cats and dogs I am talking about (mine), I'll say, 'The cat's name is Rover and the dog's name is Tiddles'.
We do it a lot with things we assume other people know about, even if we haven;t introduced it ourselves. 'I'm going to the Post Office' we say, meaning the only one in the village so you know which one' or 'the local one, the one we always use'. Or 'I took a taxi from the station. The driver was a very interesting man...' presumably because you can assume your listener has deduced the existence of a taxi driver and knows which driver you mean.
The might account for some of the usage of place names, like rivers (only one big river in this neighbourhood), but to be honest I think it's a bit tenuous, and so my answer is, finally, 'because'.
|
| | | Subject: Why the prefix
Posted Jul 29, 2012 by CASSEROLEON
This is a reply to this Posting
| | Posting
15
| | Is the root essence not the fact that there is a recognisable living unity that is not necessarily reflected in any unifying human activity though nature tends to impose its reality upon the population?
In terms of England it is known that many places and features retained names from before the Anglo-Saxon invasion because they were not names for things that either the Romans or the British built/created, but rather were names of things like The Thames and other rivers, and we usually give rivers a "The" identity.
When Rod asked about the Hurunui the closest I could get [not very close] was "The Hurons"- who were a collection of Amerindian tribes displaced from the Great Lakes region by the rise of the Iroquois. They originally shared many features not only among themselves but also with the Iroquois.. But were pushed out and ended up in what became Oklahoma.
And much the same could be said of "The Netherlands" which historians also know as having been "The United Provinces" one of which was Holland. They were before that they were part of The Spanish Netherlands where Spanish Imperialism was able to profit from "Divide and Rule", as the later administration of The Austrian Netherlands did in what became Belgium. Unlike the Hurons the Dutch managed to push-out their oppressors and create their own federal state, with the Orange family of Hollande often fulfilling the role of the elective "stadholder"- military leader.
And to add some to the list- What about The Prairies, The Pampas, The Veldt, The Steppes, The Artic and The Antarctic? All places in which humankind is cut down to size. Was it Tamerlain? "And shall I die with this unconquered?"
As for "The Stoke" I had not heard of that usage, but surely it used to be Five Towns (as in the novel "Anne of the Five Towns) that all shared an involvement in The Potteries. Rather like the Birmingham region was "The Black Country".
And as The Heavens grumble above my head, what about The Weather.
Cass
|
| | | Subject: Why the prefix
Posted Jul 29, 2012 by CASSEROLEON
This is a reply to this Posting
| | Posting
17
| | Quote : "I thought it was "an England"
Well that would be consistent with what I wrote. "England" was/is not a natural thing but is rather the creation of those people who chose to embrace an idea of Englishness, in particular, as Dorothy Whitelock explained, embracing the idea that this would be a region where people would live together in Peace- accepting and supporting "The King's Peace" and renouncing the right to pursue things like the blood feud and vengeance, as well as other types of action that place private and partial interest above the Commonweal.
Cass
|
|
