A Conversation for Ian Fleming - Author

Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 1

Greta_9, Keeper of the 4/4 Beat and Deep Sexy Basslines, in a strange condition

... there is so much homophobia and sexism in Fleming that the books cannot possibly be taken seriously. A feminist friend of mine once read me a passage from... oh, well, whichever bok has Pussy Galore in it... and I mean, apart from the name of the character, which is ludicrous to say the least, there is this fabulously funny (well, by modern standards anyway) tirade about lesbianism and what "real" women actually want.

In the end, Pussy Galore dies because she cannot choose between "being a man or a woman" (brings tears to my eyes just to think of it) and James Bond goes off with her "feminine" sister.

Enough to have any thinking woman in stitches, really smiley - smiley

That said, all the attempts at updating James Bond, making him monogamous, that sort of thing... all useless, unless you want to kill off what is essentially a male fantasy scenario. Let the boys dream on smiley - smiley


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 2

Z

Have to agree, they're good fun to read thought, just to let you know I've posted a link to this at the Bookworms club


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 3

Greta_9, Keeper of the 4/4 Beat and Deep Sexy Basslines, in a strange condition

... which book was that, anyway? I really can't remember...

I have visited the Bookworms' Club, and loved it! I've been a bookworm since I learned to read (age four, apparently, but nobody in my family seems to know exactly) so I'd be happy to become a member smiley - smiley


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 4

Z

There you go, you're on the list now!, please do drop by soon! I have to admit I can't remember which one Pussy Galore was in was. But lots of lesbians seem to want to be James Bond, so it can't be that homophobic, (IMHO)


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 5

Greta_9, Keeper of the 4/4 Beat and Deep Sexy Basslines, in a strange condition

Oh, I think Fleming was fascinated with lesbianism, like most men. According to my boyfriends, they're fascinated by the idea of females being sexual without the intervention of the male of the species. Lesbians are (incorrectly) perceived by men as being more sexual than heterosexual women. Fleming obviously didn't think much of women doing without men in sexual matters; he just didn't believe that you could do without the male element, so he depicted lesbians as masculine viragos. The pure feminine, of course, did not allow for strength of character, physical prowess and brains smiley - smiley The girls James Bond slept with were all accessories with no ideas of their own, unchallenging; or even worse, brainy females who were willing to shed their intelligence to go all mushy in his arms, thus finding out what being a real woman is all about smiley - smiley

Fantastic!


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 6

Delicia - The world's acutest kitten

It wasn't Pussy who died, it was the other, whose name escapes me at the moment smiley - smiley, the spunky one who wanted to avenge her feminine sister, who had been killed by Goldfinger, even though she'd displayed a very properly submissive feminine attitude towards Bond, but somebody had to be the body to make a start, so she was it, and a very pretty victim too, sweetly passive as she was. Pussy on the other hand was a lady gangsta, who was lesbian because she had just never met "A Man" before she met Bond, and as she was reformed, she was allowed to survive the battle of Fort Knox. And she asked him very prettily to visit her in the cooler.


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 7

Delicia - The world's acutest kitten

It wasn't Pussy who died, it was the other, whose name escapes me at the moment smiley - smiley, the spunky one who wanted to avenge her feminine sister, who had been killed by Goldfinger, even though she'd displayed a very properly submissive feminine attitude towards Bond, but somebody had to be the body to make a start, so she was it, and a very pretty victim too, sweetly passive as she was. Pussy on the other hand was a lady gangsta, who was lesbian because she had just never met "A Man" before she met Bond, and as she was reformed, she was allowed to survive the battle of Fort Knox. And she asked him very prettily to visit her in the cooler.


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 8

Greta_9, Keeper of the 4/4 Beat and Deep Sexy Basslines, in a strange condition

There goes my whole argument out of the window smiley - smiley Still, I stand by my basic point, that Fleming was fascinated by lesbians because they are sexual but do not need men in order to be sexual.


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 9

manolan


And, since no one seems to have said it, Pussy Galore and the Masterson sisters (Jill - who dies - and Tilly) are all from Goldfinger.


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 10

Greta_9, Keeper of the 4/4 Beat and Deep Sexy Basslines, in a strange condition

Cheers smiley - smiley


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 11

Delicia - The world's acutest kitten

I think Ian Fleming is a good case study, because he exhibits about every prejudice male writers have ever been accused of by women, and justly so too, but at least it is a good yarn each time, which is rare in writers with fixed ideas smiley - smiley


Blatant sexism in Fleming

Post 12

Greta_9, Keeper of the 4/4 Beat and Deep Sexy Basslines, in a strange condition

It's a male fantasy scenario... nothing more, nothing less... and boys like a good story that goes somewhere, lots of naked women and irresistible male leads. Don't they? smiley - winkeye


From the article's author

Post 13

Old Net Lunatic

As the author of this piece that has stirred up so much feeling and good debate I feel I should add my contribution.

Fleming was undoubtedly sexist and racist, (in fact the book Goldfinger demonstrates more of his prejudices than any other I feel) however he often surrounded himself with homosexuals (the most famous of whom being Noel Coward, but by no mears the only one) and admitted to attending public school and;

"...losing my virginity like so many of us did in those days.."

Even though this statement is somewhat ambiguous, there has been some speculation that Fleming's fascination with sex and homosexuality went beyone the passive. Fleming was also a sado-masochist, he would often shock women by stating that he wanted to beat them in bed.

The James Bond books are in many ways a product of their time, and I think that in middle-class people of that era there was a kind of institutional sexism and racism borne of knowing no better, and perhaps this lets Fleming off the hook slightly; perhaps it doesn't.

I agree that the stories appeal mainly to boys / men. And that they pander to men's fantasies; perhaps this is the reason the books were and are phenomenally successful.

Regards - Old Net Lunatic


Dr. No

Post 14

Delicia - The world's acutest kitten

A little time ago i read Dr. No, and there was a very interesting woman character in there. Of course she was designed as a male fantasy again, and a very original one too, and anyway if i want a male equivalent of similar appeal, i mustn't complain about male writers in general and Ian in particular, i must just write what i want myself, and then i got it. But i digress.
I was trying to think of her name. Leafed through the book to find it, it was a sweet one, but i'd forgotten it all the same, being shockingly bad at names, sad, sad, sad. It was something like Honeychile i think, well why don't i know now, just having leafed...i don't know because i couldn't find her name, as Bond kept referring to her as "the girl" that's the sort of jerk he was, Fleming i mean, not Bond, Bond himself i don't mind so much, as i had the satisfaction of seeing him really put through his paces by the Evil Chink, and he does take a lot of punishment like a gentleman, i make allowances on that account, only i sometimes can't help thinking that Fleming would have benefited from the same treatment smiley - smiley.


Dr. No

Post 15

Old Net Lunatic

Her name was Honeychile Ryder, and she was (like some other Fleming heriones) raped as a younger girl, then James Bond gives her the 'treatment' and 'cures' her.

The same thing happens in Diamonds are Forever, when the herione, Tiffany Case, was raped in earlier life and again, Bond gives her 'closure' on the experience. In fact, come to think of it, Pussy Galore (Goldfinger) was also raped as a girl by her uncle, and this was (according to IF) why she was a lesbian, because she, "...had never met a real man before."

Fleming probably created most of his heriones as antithesis to his own wife and his own experiences. His wife, Ann, was as far removed from Fleming's heroines as it was possible to get and perhaps it was Fleming's way of reaching out to protect these females in the only way he could understand.


Dr. No

Post 16

Delicia - The world's acutest kitten

Don't we all at times, create the antithesis to our significant other, i mean smiley - winkeye
Honeychile Ryder, that's it, thank you, it's a wonderful name, and he could of have mentioned it more often, not doing justice to that fantastic charcter of his himself. "The girl" indeed.
All that won't deter me from getting the Bond books i haven't read yet, Diamonds... is one, and another is "From Russia with love" i once found a tattered copy of it in a dingy bookshop, didn't realize that about a third of the pages was missing, boy was i hopping mad when i got there!
Fine tough writer, is my summary.


Dr. No

Post 17

manolan


Same sort of thing in The Spy Who Loved Me, the heroine has a handful of exploitative and very unsatisfying relationships before meeting Bond. Very different story from the film. In the film, The Spy Who Loved Me refers to Triple-X (Barbara Bach's character), or so it says in some of the publicity material, whereas the book starts with the words "The spy who loved me was called James Bond..." or very close.


Books v Films

Post 18

Old Net Lunatic


The overwhelming majority of Bond books bear little or no resemblance to the films, with the exception of the title, odd scene, character name, or rough allusion to the plot. Some only share the title and villain's / herione's name.

As stated in the article, the Bond film franchise has evolved reflecting the times in which the films are set.

Further examples of how the books differ:

1. The Bond books do not start with a set-piece pre-credits action sequence.
2. As I said there is very little humour, except the odd very dry remark.
3. The books are actually more realistic (I know I know, far-fetched, but not as far-fetched as the films).
4. The Roger Moore phase portrayed 'M' as being openly and unneccessarily hostile to Bond, which he rarely was really.
5. Bond never threw his hat on the hat-stand.
6. Bond never smoked cigars, only cigarettes, at an alarming rate of between 50-70 a day.
7. Bonbd rarely drank his trademark Vodka Martinis, he was more of a classic Martini man (Gin), or a scotch drinker. Tattinger champagne appealed to him but he was no gourmet.
8. Blofeld never had a cat, or one eye, and was married.


Books v Films

Post 19

manolan


The closest of all the films to the book, I think, is OHMSS. Very little was changed, except the attack on Schloss Adler (or whatever it's called) was a bit less dramatic in the book and Bond is a faltering and out of practice skier.


Books v Films

Post 20

Old Net Lunatic

Yes, good point, and I agree with you.

Perhaps this is the reason why it is my favourite Bond film and George Lazenby my favourite Bond. Telly Savalas is miscast as Blofeld however.


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